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Thread: Early Return Rates

  1. #1
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    Default Early Return Rates

    Dear all,

    Can anyone oblige with details on the return rates by the various groups of Bomber Command between June 1943 and December 1943.

    I am working on No.3 Group's contribution to the summer and winter campaigns for this period and need to compare the early return / abort rate with other groups, can anyone help. Or, point me to where I can locate this information.

    TIA

    Steve
    No.218 (Gold Coast) Squadron Association Historian
    No.623 squadron Research

    ~~IN TIME ~~

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    Hi Steve,

    I've never come across a document with a conclusive answer to that. However, the Night Bomb Raid Sheets contain tables per group with aircraft detailed to attack and actual numbers of aircraft which have attacked a primary or secundary target.

    Will send you an example to your private mail address.

    Regards,
    Hans

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    Hi Steve - Night Raid Reports. See response on Stirling Forum for example.

    Cheers,

    Richard

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    Hello Steve

    What you require is the Bomber Command ORS (Operational Research Section) files if they have survived. Also the Air Warfare Analysis Section.

    Also
    Weather, effect on operations and
    Reliability of aircraft

    A.P. 3368 The Origins and Development of Operational Research in the Royal Air Force published 1963 by HMSO, looks to be too brief, but would give you a general idea of the operational records once kept. It only gives an overall percentage and cancelled ops due to weather, for an unstated period which was under review.

    Webster and Frankland The Strategic Air Offensive Vol iv, the nearest to what you require appears to be Appendix 40 which only gives tables for number BC aircraft missing crashed and damaged on operations.

    There is a file which gives lists of BC ORS Reports.

    A Canadian Website had several 100s of BC ORS Reports downloadable as pdfs, I accessed one pdf from a Google search and was able to access the site menu freely and download some ORS Reports of interest from WW2. When I revisited the site to get a few more that part of the website was no longer accessible.

    Mark
    Last edited by Mark Hood; 26th October 2014 at 22:05.

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    Default Research Branch

    Steve

    Further to my last post, the ORS and AWA lists (lists only) are in File AIR 14/4591 Research Branch, Bomber Command and Strike Command: lists of reports, memoranda and notes for the record 1939 to 1966.

    According to a TNA letter, TNA Record Managers felt that the Reports were of historical value and wished that the paper files had been preserved by the Department for researchers and readers. Unfortunately only a few (if any) of the surviving paper files can be now found, when interrogating TNA catalogue.

    But the AHB had them on M/film about 2009, as they sent me an ORS report questioning Whitley losses over German searchlight areas where there was no German AA/flak and no German fighters.

    But you will need to check first and indicate that they are not elsewhere, e.g., RAF Museum and TNA. Also is there anything published in AIR 10?

    Mark
    Last edited by Mark Hood; 26th October 2014 at 21:58.

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    Default Research Branch ORS / AWA Bomber Command

    Here are a few of the 100s of reports which interested me (full lists are in AIR 14/4591):-

    8 & 9 Sept 43 Boulogne area
    17 Oct 42 PRO AIR 14/1447
    20 Dec 43 to 1 Mar 44 Halifax & Lancaster AIR 14/2692
    20 Jun 43, 19.6.43 15.7.42 Night
    27 & 29 January 1944 Herbouville
    20 Jun 43; 19 Jun 43; 15 Jul 42 Night.pdf"
    A.A. fire against aircraft First 200 reports of damage.pdf"
    Accuracy lightly defended S.184.pdf"
    Accuracy of GEE.pdf"
    Air to Air fire.pdf"
    Air to Air Fire Report No.98.pdf"
    Aircraft Casualties Aug to 31 Dec 41 Report No.27.pdf"
    Aircraft Periodic Inspections Report S.170.pdf"
    Aircraft Repairs & Failures to number of hours flown No.97.pdf"
    Aircrew aircraft ratios in operational squadrons of BC.pdf"
    A-note-on-recent-enemy-pyrotechnic-activity-over-Germany.pdf"
    Astro fixes Oct 42 to Apr 43 Report 75.pdf"
    Astro Nav Reports Oct 1942 Report 60.pdf"
    Astro Nav Reports Oct-Dec 1942.pdf"
    Astro navigation reports November 1942.pdf"
    BC Aircraft Missing May 41 to Apr 42.pdf"
    Bomber Losses on nights 27 & 28 August 1942.pdf"
    Boozer Use of Report S.72.pdf"
    Carpet II Noise Jammer.pdf"
    Centre of a Night Photograph Memo 71.pdf"
    Comparison of losses MANCHESTER and STIRLING.pdf"
    Co-op between flak & Searchlights Jul 19 to Jul 29 1942.pdf"
    Countermeasures RDF Report No. S.59.pdf"
    Damage due to Hy A.A. fire 24 July 43 to 25 Feb 44.pdf"
    Day & Night Ops Mar to Sep 44 ref to 617 Squadron S.192.pdf"
    Daylight Ops 1 Jan to 30 June 42.pdf"
    Daylight Ops 24 June to 30 Jul 44 No. S.181.pdf"
    Decoy in Mannheim & Franfurt areas particularly Decoy T.I. S.224 refs to 1941 -1943.pdf"
    Defence against Fighters ref to friendly.pdf"
    Defensive German tactics Aug 43 Report No.80.pdf"
    Delta effects on Oboe 1945 S.216.pdf"
    Ditching Drill S.188.pdf"
    Effect on Bomber Losses of Concentration in Space en Route Report No.43.pdf"
    Efficiencies Report No.76.pdf"
    Errors in BC Ops S.249.pdf"
    Errors Oboe in BC OPs S.249.pdf"
    Experience on Op Efficiency S.187.pdf"
    Fishpond & Monica III Visual Monica Oct 43 - Feb 44.pdf"
    Flashlight Exercise Dec 43 to Mar 44 S.149.pdf"
    Flashlight Exercise Rep No.79.pdf"
    Flight Plan 6 June 1944.pdf"
    Flying Control - Night of 22 Sept 43 Report 84.pdf"
    Forward Planning of Ops S.227 ref to S.124.pdf"
    G - H 3rd Nov 1943.pdf"
    G H Training Flights.pdf"
    GEE effect on Casualties Mar to Oct 42 Report No.74.pdf"
    GEE Phasing of Memo No.S.88.pdf"
    G-H 28 Jul 44 & 2 Aug 44.pdf"
    G-H April 1944 Report No. S.152.pdf"
    G-H Training Flights 218 Squadron.pdf"
    Groundmarking 6 Mar to 10 Apr 44 Report S.159.pdf"
    H2S G-H Parctice by 514 Sqn Jan to Mar 45 No. S.230.pdf"
    H2S G-H Training Flights by 514 Sqn 30 Dec 44 to 13 Feb 45 S.213 copy 16.pdf"
    H2S G-H Training Flights by 514 Sqn 30 Dec 44 to 13 Feb 45 S.213.pdf"
    H2S G-H Training Flights S.204.pdf"
    H2S use Jan to May 1943.pdf"
    Halifax aircraft with Modified Rudders S.114.pdf"
    Halifax Losses July 41 to June 42.pdf"
    Height Effects S.178.pdf"
    High Level Ops in Daylight.pdf"
    Hiltingbury Camp Hants June 1944.pdf"
    Icing Conditions Report No.42.pdf"
    IFF use on defences Mar to April 1942.pdf"
    Intruder Attacks on BC Aircraft night 3 Mar 45 Report S.217.pdf"
    Intruders and Air Security of Aerodromes 1942.pdf"
    Intruders and Air Security of Aerodromes Report 38 1942.pdf"
    Lancaster Losses trend 1942.pdf"
    Loran 5 Grp Ops S.198.pdf"
    Losses & Interceptions Aug 44 Report 78.pdf"
    Losses & interceptions BC Aircraft Night Ops 1943 Report No.83.pdf"
    Losses & Interceptions Night Ops 1 Aug 41 to 31 Oct 43.pdf"
    Losses & Interceptions Night Ops Apr 44 Report No.103.pdf"
    Losses & Interceptions Night Ops Aug 43 Report No.78.pdf"
    Losses & Interceptions Night Ops Aug 44 Report No.111.pdf"
    Losses & Interceptions Night Ops Aug 1942.pdf"
    Losses & interceptions Night Ops Dec 1942.pdf"
    Losses & interceptions Night Ops Dec 1943.pdf"
    Losses & Interceptions Night Ops Feb 44 Report No.95.pdf"
    Losses & Interceptions Night Ops Jan 44.pdf"
    Losses & Interceptions Night Ops Jul 44 Report No.109.pdf"
    Losses & Interceptions Night Ops Jun 44 Report No.107.pdf"
    Losses & Interceptions Night Ops Mar 44 Report No.100.pdf"
    Losses & Interceptions Night Ops May 44 Peport 104.pdf"
    Losses & Interceptions Night Ops May 44 Report No.104.pdf"
    Losses & Interceptions Night Ops Nov 43.pdf"
    Losses & Interceptions Night Ops Oct 43.pdf"
    Losses & Interceptions Night Ops Oct 44 No. 115.pdf"
    Losses & interceptions Night Ops Sep 42.pdf"
    Losses & Interceptions of Aircraft June 1942.pdf"
    Losses & Interceptions of BC Aircraft 1 to 8 May 45 No.131.pdf"
    Losses & Interceptions of BC Aircraft Apr 45 Report No.130.pdf"
    Losses & Interceptions of BC Aircraft Dec 1944 No. 119.pdf"
    Losses & Interceptions of BC Aircraft Feb 45 No.123.pdf"
    Losses & Interceptions of BC Aircraft Jan 1945 Report No. 121.pdf"
    Losses & Interceptions of BC Aircraft Mar 45 Report No.125.pdf"
    Losses & Interceptions of BC Aircraft May 42 Report.46.pdf"
    Losses & Interceptions of BC Aircraft May 42.pdf"
    Losses & Interceptions of BC Aircraft Nov 44 Report No.116.pdf"
    Losses & Interceptions of BC Aircraft Sep 1944.pdf"
    Losses & Interceptions review July 43 Report No.77.pdf"
    Losses and Interceptions of BC Aircraft Night Ops July 1942.pdf"
    Low Level Daylight No.2 Group 12 March to 31 Oct 1941.pdf"
    Low Level Ops in Daylight.pdf"
    Mandrel & Freya Window against early Warning equip S.148.pdf"
    Mandrel & Window Forces 1944 S.172.pdf"
    Marking techniques Report S.154.pdf"
    Memo No.94.pdf"
    Nav errors S.149.pdf"
    Navigation analysis 27 August 1943..pdf"
    Navigation Berlin 24 March 1944.pdf"
    Night Appearance photos Memo 70.pdf"
    Night Defensive Tactics Apr 42 Report No.45.pdf"
    Night Defensive Tactics Apr 42.pdf"
    Night Defensive Tactics Dec 41 Report No.26.pdf"
    Night Defensive Tactics Dec 1941 Report No.25.pdf"
    Night Defensive Tactics Jan 42 Report No.30 i.pdf"
    Night Defensive Tactics Jan 42 Report No.30.pdf"
    Night Defensive Tactics Mar 42.pdf"
    Night Defensive Tactics Nov 1941 Report No.25 i.pdf"
    Night Defensive Tactics Nov 1941 Report No.25.pdf"
    Night Defensive Tactics Oct 41 Report No.21.pdf"
    Night Defensive Tactics Sep 41 Report No.15.pdf"
    Night Losses 1942.pdf"
    Night Ops 3 Sept to 19 Nov 1943.pdf"
    Night photographic Memo 81 ref to Report 72.pdf"
    Night Photographs Dec 41 to Feb 42 No. S.45.pdf"
    Night photographs Dec 41 to Feb 42 Report S.45.pdf"
    Night photographs Dec 41 to Feb 42.pdf"
    Night Photographs Report S.57.pdf"
    Oboe 7 May to 19 May 44 S.158.pdf"
    Oboe 13th Mar 1944.pdf"
    Oboe Accuracy Daylight Ops Aug & Sep 44 S.182.pdf"
    Oboe Errors in BC OPs Report S.249.pdf"
    Oboe Flying errors.pdf"
    Oboe Flying Errors Report S.202 ref to TRE Apr 44.pdf"
    Oboe ground marking 6 - 11 April 44.pdf"
    Oboe Marking at Night Jun 44 No. S.180.pdf"
    Oboe Mk 1 Memo No. S.53.pdf"
    Oboe Mk 1A Dec 42 to June 43.pdf"
    Oboe performance tests Inst. Veloc. Mouse No. S.223.pdf"
    Oboe T.Is at Night Jul to Nov 1944.pdf"
    Oboe use 29.12.43 - 5.1.44.pdf"
    Op Accuracy of Astro-fixes Report No.75.pdf"
    Op Night 9 Apr 44 S.145.pdf"
    Op Night 9 April 44 S.143.pdf"
    Op Night 10 Apr 44 Report No. S.142.pdf"
    Op Night 10 Apr 44 Report No. S.147.pdf"
    Op Night 10 Apr 44 Report No. S.150.pdf"
    Op Night 10 Apr 44.pdf"
    Op Night 15 Mar 44.pdf"
    Op Night 16 Mar 44.pdf"
    Op Night 23 Mar 44 S.135.pdf"
    Op night 25 Mar 44.pdf"
    Op Night 26 Mar 44.pdf"
    Op night 29 Mar 44.pdf"
    Op Night by 4 Group 1 May 19 July 44 S.177.pdf"
    Op record of AI Boozer in 1 Group Nov 43 to Mar 44.pdf"
    Op Trials of BOOZER.pdf"
    Operations Night Report dated 20 Jul 43 No.72.pdf"
    Ops 30 Apr - 10 May 44.pdf"
    Ops by 1 Gp 30 Apr to 1 Jul 44.pdf"
    Ops by 5 Grp 10 Apr - 31 May 44 S.168.pdf"
    Ops by 9 & 617 Sqns Report S.226.pdf"
    Ops March to April 1942.pdf"
    Ops night 8 June 44 S.161.pdf"
    Ops night by 6 Group 1 May to 31 Aug 1944 S.185.pdf"
    Ops with first models of GL GCI BOOZER.pdf"
    OTUs use of on Ops.pdf"
    Petrol Consumption & Flying time affected by wind.pdf"
    Pilot & Nav Errors Jan to Mar 45 S.219.pdf"
    Plotting Aircraft positions Memo 73 ref to Report S.73.pdf"
    Practice on errors 4, 5 & 7 Groups Report 1945 No. S.225.pdf"
    PRO WO 222/65.pdf"
    RDF Countermeasures RDF Report No. S.59.pdf"
    Route Markers.pdf"
    SABS Mk.II A Accuracy.pdf"
    Searchlights illuminating aircraft 15 Mar to 14 Apr 1942.pdf"
    Serrate Ops Dec 43 to Apr 44 Report S.153.pdf"
    Serrate Ops June & July 44.pdf"
    Serrate Ops May 1944.pdf"
    Sky Brightness Measurements of Report No.93.pdf"
    TR1335 as a Nav Aid review of Mar to May 42.pdf"
    TR 1335 Effect of.pdf"
    TR 1335 Effect of No.S.52.pdf"
    TR 1335 Review of Op Use No. S.54.pdf"
    TR 1335 stations & Type 7000 Essen 9 Mar 1942 Report S.36 Appendix A.pdf"
    TR 1335 stations & Type 7000 Essen 9 Mar 1942 Report S.36.pdf"
    Visibility & Recognition of Indicators Report No.99.pdf"
    Visual Recognition of Ground Features at Night Report.31.pdf"
    Vulnerability of BC Aircraft Fuel & Oil Systems Report dated 1942 No.57.pdf"
    Vulnerability of Hydraulic and Electrical general systems S. 196.pdf"
    Vulnerability of Mosquito flying control system No.244.pdf"
    Whitley O.R.S. Analysis of Losses on Bomber Operations.pdf"
    Windfinding Aircraft No. S.169.pdf"

  7. #7
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    Hi all,

    Firstly Mark, thanks for the posts, certainly interesting ! A Canadian Website had several 100s of BC ORS Reports downloadable as pdfs, what is this site ?

    Richard, Hans thank you both and sorry for the delay in replying.

    Cheers

    Steve
    No.218 (Gold Coast) Squadron Association Historian
    No.623 squadron Research

    ~~IN TIME ~~

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