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Thread: Wellington Z 1107 crew.

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    Default Wellington Z 1107 crew.

    Hello all

    I have been researching my great uncle for about 4 years on and off and I and have got to a stage where I can not find any more information.
    If I start with what I do know maybe some body on here can help fill in any blanks.

    My great uncle SGT Robert McKie Stapley was on board Z 1107 Vickers 271 Wellington IC, which took off from at 16:03 from Castle Donington, Leicestershire on a training mission. After an engine fire in the starboard engine, the other engine stalled causing the aircraft to crash near Breedon-on-the-Hill, 6 miles NNW of Coalville Leicestershire killing all on board.

    This was on the 2nd August 1943.

    He was a Royal Air Force Volunteer Reserve and part of the 28 Operational Training Unit based at RAF Wymeswold, Leicestershire. In training for RAF Bomber command.

    The other crew members were:-

    Pilot. SGT John Hinds Borland from Airdrie. s/n 1057662.

    Navigator. SGT George Henry Clarkson from Musselburgh. s/n 1554278.

    Bomb Aimer. SGT John Desmond Hayes from Little Houghton. s/n 1507661.

    Wireless Operator/Air Gunner. SGT Stelios Petron Pithara from Cyprus. s/n 1336315.

    Rear Gunner. SGT Robert McKie Stapley from Hartfield, East Sussex. s/n 1807327.

    I would like any more information about the crash site as on all the websites I have looked at none mention a Wellington crashing on 2nd August 1943.
    Information on any crew members, I have recently had restored a photo of my great uncle with his fellow air gunner so this could be SGT Pithara.
    I have applied for my great uncles service pack but this can take around 14 weeks, I am unsure how much information this will have as he was still in training.
    I would really like to have any contact with relatives of the other crew I know SGT Borland has been mentioned in 2006 on this site By a Rachel Barber.

    Sorry for the long first post.

    Thanks
    Dean.

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    Hello Dean

    Never had much joy in getting any accident details from the official RAF Service Record Card (usually two large sides), except a date of death and either “Killed in Action” or “Killed on Active Service” or “MBK” (Missing Believed Killed). The ‘Certificate of Discharge’ issued to your family next of kin after his death, has almost all the same Unit and Awards information as the Service Record, when the person has died in the RAF.

    Sgt Pithara seems to be buried at Burton on the Wolds Burial Ground and the Cemetery appears to be run by the Parish Council. Have you emailed the Parish Council to see whether an actual death place is recorded in their Parish Burial Register for Sgt Pithara buried in August 1943?
    http://burtoncotesprestwold.leiceste...hcouncils.org/
    You could try the same question with another Parish, Church or Council Cemetery too.

    Have you ordered a full Death Certificate from the local Registrar who now holds the relevant District Death Registers, which appears to be under the “Loughborough District”? You can also order a full Death Certificate online from the UK government’s General Register Office (GRO) for about 10 and it is usually posted out in 10 working days, but you will need the details from the GRO Index page to fill out the online form. The actual GRO Death Index page scan is downloadable from “Free BMD” http://www.freebmd.org.uk/search , to give you the basic details to order a full Death Certificate online, which hopefully might give you a slightly more precise death location, besides the 9 miles from XXXXX.

    He appears to be on Free BMD and the GRO Index page as STAPLEY Robert M

    Is this the crash, perhaps an official death place from above might confirm?
    http://www.leicestershirevillages.co...l?topic=399260

    I presume you have applied to the RAF Museum Hendon for photocopies of both sides of the Flying Accident Card (A.M.1180) quoting Aircraft Serial number, Aircraft Type (Wellington) and the accident Date? Usually the location will be recorded in mileage from a set place. Also ask for both sides of the Aircraft Card (A.M. 78) quoting Aircraft Serial number and Type?

    Mark
    Last edited by Mark Hood; 17th November 2014 at 22:13.

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    Dear Dean
    Good to hear from you again. Mark has given you a stack of good advice. Looking at the web site he suggests
    http://www.leicestershirevillages.co...l?topic=399260
    shows a large number of potential leads.
    Feel free to e-mail me if you get stuck on anything.
    If you are able to get to Kew it would also be worth looking at the 28OTU ORB as it may give some details.
    Mark has suggested contacting Hendon. Their details are on
    http://www.rafmuseum.org.uk/research...-division.aspx
    Best wishes
    James

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    Hello Mark and James,
    Thank you so much for your advice, I didn't know you could get copies of the aircraft card etc.
    lots more leads to follow
    Thanks again
    Dean

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    Dear Dean
    DORIS at Hendon are very helpful. Don't expect too much from the AM1180 and Form 78 but they are certainly worth getting hold of. Also they will not charge you for them!
    Best wishes
    James

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    Hello
    Unfortunately the Breedon on the hill crash on the website you linked to Mark is one that happened in the November of 1942. I have applied for Roberts Death certificate, emailed the parish council and the RAF at Hendon so now I have got to play the waiting game!!.
    Have a good weekend
    Dean

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    Hi All
    I have received the A.M 1180 and 78 forms from Hendon and using the abbreviation page on this forum I have managed to decipher most of the forms.
    I am aware that some of the numbers maybe references to separate forms that would have been destroyed.

    On the 1180 form underlined part is code or number I do not understand.

    Cause: 141

    Signal: A64.2/8

    After unit box which is 28 OTU their is the number 4

    Group: 93

    COM: B

    A.O: N

    F.I.N: E

    K: 5 could this be 5 killed??

    Stage: LDG N.F Landing??

    The following are in the sections under solo and night.

    OOC ACF DOR ES

    under INST: UCK
    under LINK: HOK
    Under Duty and history: solo C+L training XOK WO16???

    In the text section SE EO N/K STW.CO

    In a large circle 29/9 possibly date??

    Under Drome N
    Box next to dawn dusk: L.15


    I will happily email a copy of the form if anyone can help if it will make more sense.

    Thanks for your help
    Dean

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    Hi Dean,

    This page gives a breakdown of the cause codes and some of the other info.

    http://www.rafaircraftaccidents.com/Concept/help.html

    also

    http://www.rafcommands.com/forum/sho...accident-cards

    and

    http://www.rafcommands.com/forum/sho...al-Cards/page4

    Regards
    Ross
    The Intellectual Property contained in this message has been assigned specifically to this web site.
    Copyright Ross McNeill 2015/2018 - All rights reserved.

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    Thanks Ross that answers a few more questions.

    I am still struggling to interpret the text I will type as written to see if anyone can help.

    E/F (TO) (Engine fire 2nd engine?) Std eng failed and caught fire in air. Pilot stalled A/C (aircraft?) attempting to SE? fly and operate fire extinguisher EO?(Engine take off stage?) to 2 cylinder barrel fractures cause N/K (not known?). 3rd acc of type (accident?) STW Co no blame pilot. AFC Couen.(could this be a rank and name)


    LDG.NF I presume means landing not forced.

    Thanks for your help
    Dean

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    E/F - engine failure
    A/C - aircraft
    S/E - single engine
    E/O - Engineering Officer
    N/K - not known
    acc - accident
    STW Co is STN Co - Station Commanding Officer
    AFC Couen is AOC Concur - Air Officer Commanding concurs (agrees with previous statements - Ross)
    LDG.NF -Landing not forced

    Ross
    Last edited by Ross_McNeill; 30th December 2014 at 16:48.
    The Intellectual Property contained in this message has been assigned specifically to this web site.
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