Results 1 to 7 of 7

Thread: Combat claims by No.3 Group Bomber Command during 1941

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Posts
    262
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts

    Default Combat claims by No.3 Group Bomber Command during 1941

    Hi,

    I am checking all combat claims for destroyed, probably destroyed or damaged enemy aircraft by No.3 Group Bomber Command during 1941 in the Interception/tactics night reports (AIR 14/3370 and 3371). Unfortunately the Interception/tactics night reports only has information about the involved Group. With a few exceptions the squadron is not mentioned. I have been able to find the involved squadrons for most of the claims during 1941 but still remains 10 claims without squadron identity.

    I need help to identify the involved squadrons in the following 10 combats to be able to order relevant ORBs from the National Archives. Any other information is of course much appreciated.

    1. Night 6/7 May, Target HAMBURG, Pos: 53°00’N. 02°40’E., 2243 hrs, 8,000 ft. Wellington of 3 Group attacked by He.111 and 1 Ju.88, the former claimed as damaged.
    2. Night 6/7 May, Target HAMBURG, Pos: 52°02’N. 02°12’E., 2310 hrs, 4,000 ft. Wellington of 3 Group attacked by Me.110 which claimed damaged.
    3. Night 2/3 July, Target BREMEN, Pos: 10 miles W Texel., 0325 hrs, 14,000 ft. Me.110 made 3 attacks. No damage to our a/c but E/A claimed as damaged.
    4. Night 4/5 July, Target BREST, Pos: 49°34’N. 04°20’E., 7,000 ft. our a/c [Wellington] attacked by Me.110 which caught fire after three bursts and appeared to break up in the sea.
    5. Night 6/7 July, Target MÜNSTER, Pos: 3 miles W Den Helder., 0135 hrs, 10,500 ft. [Wellington] attacked by Me.110, front gunner got in long burst and E/A dived away and is claimed as probable.
    6. Night 9/10 July, Target OSNABRÜCK, Pos: 52°21’N. 03°31’E., 0249 hrs, 14,000 ft. Me.110 made level attack dead astern. 600-75 yards. our a/c [Wellington] evaded by starboard turn. R/G opened fire at 100 ft, starboard wing of E/A hit, E/A rolled over and dived towards ground.
    7. Night 9/10 July, Target OSNABRÜCK, Pos: 52°40’N. 05°08’E., 0045 hrs, 10,000 ft. Me.110 attacked from underneath tail in first attack. Making three subsequent attacks all from same position causing bullet holes in both tail planes and starboard fuselage. Rear gunner replied firing approximately 200 rounds. Hits were claimed and the second pilot and the rear gunner saw the E/A dive away very steeply with flames coming from its starboard engine.
    8. Night 14/15 August, Target HANNOVER, Pos: 10 miles W Bremen, 0105 hrs, 6,000 ft. Wellington held by very large group of S/Ls in spite evasive action when clear of flak. Me.109 approached from astern 1,000 ft above with white headlight which blinded R/G who fired 300 rounds from each gun at 300 yds. Fire seen entering wing and fuselage of E/A which doused its lights. E/A held his fire until very close. Fire passed overhead and a/c below.
    9. Night 16/17 August, Target DUISBURG, Pos: 10 miles W Oostvorne, 0105 hrs, at 10,500 ft. Me.110 attacked Wellington. E/A attacked from astern and slightly below with cannon and M/G at 400 yds, our R/G fired 300 rounds in reply, E/A dived vertically and hit was seen to hit sea, claimed. Moon was dead astern during encounter.
    10. Night 29/30 August, Target MANNHEIM, Pos: 10 miles E Dunkirk, 2145 hrs, 12,000 ft. Wellington IC infra red , bright half moon low on starboard quarter, no S/L or flak. Ju.88 red light port wing tip, white light in cabin. Came from port bow passed 50 ft. below and from below starboard quarter opened cannon fire at 130 yards. Ranging coming in to 75 yards. Our rear gunner fired 60 rounds in two bursts hitting Ju.88 which broke off combat taking cloud cover, and is claimed as damaged. Wellington turned towards Ju.88 putting it into moon, swastika clearly seen on tail.


    Thanks in advance,
    Peter

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Prague, Czech Republic
    Posts
    3,412
    Thanks
    17
    Thanked 13 Times in 12 Posts

    Default

    Hi Peter,
    I have checked ORB of No. 311 (Czech) Sq and some other sources.
    Only the last two nights coincided with its operations but no encounters with enemy fighters on those dates.
    So you can set 311 Sq aside.

    HTH

    Pavel
    Czechoslovak Airmen in the RAF 1940-1945
    http://cz-raf.webnode.cz

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    RAF Honington
    Posts
    478
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts

    Default

    I have sent an email to the secretary of the 75 Squadron Assn as they have recently completed an updated squadron history. If he comes back to me reference any of these I will let you know.
    Dee

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Posts
    262
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts

    Default

    Thanks Pavel and Dee,

    Pavel: it always useful to know what you can exclude.

    Dee: I would not be suprised if any of these claims were made by 75 Sqn. So far I have found several claims during 1941 by 75 Sqn not mentioned in the sqn ORB.

    Regards,
    Peter

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Posts
    262
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts

    Default

    Updated question with information I received from Martin Giles on another forum. Claims 4 and 7 have been identified and I added the involved squadrons. For your information I have the ORBs of 9, 15 and 75 Squadrons plus combat reports from AIR 50 but I have not found any matches in these documents.

    1. Night 6/7 May, Target HAMBURG, Pos: 53°00’N. 02°40’E., 2243 hrs, 8,000 ft. Wellington of 3 Group attacked by He.111 and 1 Ju.88, the former claimed as damaged. Wellington squadrons operating this night: 15, 40, 57, 75 and 214

    2. Night 6/7 May, Target HAMBURG, Pos: 52°02’N. 02°12’E., 2310 hrs, 4,000 ft. Wellington of 3 Group attacked by Me.110 which claimed damaged.

    3. Night 2/3 July, Target BREMEN, Pos: 10 miles W Texel., 0325 hrs, 14,000 ft. Me.110 made 3 attacks. No damage to our a/c but E/A claimed as damaged. Wellington squadrons operating this night: 40, 115, 214 and 218. Stirling squadrons: 7 and 15

    5. Night 6/7 July, Target MÜNSTER, Pos: 3 miles W Den Helder., 0135 hrs, 10,500 ft. [Wellington] attacked by Me.110, front gunner got in long burst and E/A dived away and is claimed as probable. Wellington squadrons operating this night: 40, 115 and 218

    6. Night 9/10 July, Target OSNABRÜCK, Pos: 52°21’N. 03°31’E., 0249 hrs, 14,000 ft. Me.110 made level attack dead astern. 600-75 yards. our a/c [Wellington] evaded by starboard turn. R/G opened fire at 100 ft, starboard wing of E/A hit, E/A rolled over and dived towards ground. Wellington squadrons operating this night: 40, 101, 115, 214 and 218

    8. Night 14/15 August, Target HANNOVER, Pos: 10 miles W Bremen, 0105 hrs, 6,000 ft. Wellington held by very large group of S/Ls in spite evasive action when clear of flak. Me.109 approached from astern 1,000 ft above with white headlight which blinded R/G who fired 300 rounds from each gun at 300 yds. Fire seen entering wing and fuselage of E/A which doused its lights. E/A held his fire until very close. Fire passed overhead and a/c below. Wellington squadrons operating this night: 9, 57, 75, 101, 115, 218 and 311

    9. Night 16/17 August, Target DUISBURG, Pos: 10 miles W Oostvorne, 0105 hrs, at 10,500 ft. Me.110 attacked Wellington. E/A attacked from astern and slightly below with cannon and M/G at 400 yds, our R/G fired 300 rounds in reply, E/A dived vertically and hit was seen to hit sea, claimed. Moon was dead astern during encounter. Wellington squadrons operating this night: 9, 40, 99, 149, 214, 311

    10. Night 29/30 August, Target MANNHEIM, Pos: 10 miles E Dunkirk, 2145 hrs, 12,000 ft. Wellington IC infra red , bright half moon low on starboard quarter, no S/L or flak. Ju.88 red light port wing tip, white light in cabin. Came from port bow passed 50 ft. below and from below starboard quarter opened cannon fire at 130 yards. Ranging coming in to 75 yards. Our rear gunner fired 60 rounds in two bursts hitting Ju.88 which broke off combat taking cloud cover, and is claimed as damaged. Wellington turned towards Ju.88 putting it into moon, swastika clearly seen on tail. Wellington squadrons operating this night: 9, 57, 75, 115, 214, 218 and 311

    Regards,
    Peter

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Posts
    6,369
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 32 Times in 31 Posts

    Default

    Hello,

    9. Night 16/17 August, Target DUISBURG.

    A bit vague, but might be worth following up:-

    On 16 August (1941), it was Alconbury's turn to receive the Secretary of State for Air, Sir Archibald Sinclair and AVM. Seely, AOC 3 Group. They attended the briefing, dined in the Mess at Upton House, saw the crews take off and returned for the interrogation on an eventful night. Two crews (P/O J. E. King and Sgt G. Byrne) had successfully carried out freshman attacks on Rotterdam, while nine others went to Duisberg, reporting large fires. Fighters had been active, three crews reporting contacts, and Flt/Lt R. Healey, P/O Cowsill's rear gunner, shooting down an Me 110.

    See:
    Sweeping the Skies:A History of No.40 Squadron, RFC and RAF, 1916-56.
    Gunby,David
    South Church:The Pentland Press,1995.
    p.169.

    Col.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Posts
    262
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts

    Default

    Thanks Col,

    Definitely worth to follow up.

    Peter

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •