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Thread: USAAF Huriicane?

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    Default USAAF Huriicane?

    Hurricane Z4631 on USAAF on loss list for 8th October 1943. Unit is given as HQ 8th AF. SAL BD, salvaged due to battle damage.
    This aircraft started service with 1423 Flight,then 24 Squadron,on to USAAF,and then to 41OTU,where it crashed when trying to force land at Crannage,near Manchester on the 31st;March 1944.I am reposting this qeury, as I'm certain it can be answered here. Basically, why was a Hurricane involved in Combat in Oct 1943, serving with the USAAF, was this the norm?, as I thought it likely to be superceded by then by the USAAFs own machines. Also I believe this aircraft has been raised on a previous thread, as having served in Iceland?
    Dave

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    Hi David
    Is it possible that for the USAAC the term Battle Damage could include the consequences of Air Raids and need not necessarily be Combat?
    Regards
    Dick

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    You could apply for the accident report from:

    http://www.aviationarchaeology.com/src/AARmonthly/Oct1942O.htm

    However, they give the date as the 22nd for Z-4631, at Heathrow

    A

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    Default Wrong date? etc

    I've no idea Dick as the term Battle means what it says. I'm not sure what you refer to Amrit, presumably Heathrow as in the place where it crashed, and the date was provided on my last post here by another member.
    Its thrown a spanner in the works then if the date is wrong, but this American Hurricane, is a curious number for someone to research, although as I say it came up recently, in connection with an Icelandic RAF unit earlier on in the war.

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    Quote Originally Posted by david cullen View Post
    I'm not sure what you refer to Amrit, presumably Heathrow as in the place where it crashed, and the date was provided on my last post here by another member.
    What I meant was that the site holds the official accident reports for those aircraft listed and you can purchase copies. Click on "Order Accident Reports" at the top of the page. This may help you establish what happened to the aircraft. I noticed that no pilot was given, which either means that they don't have that information or that no pilot was invloved and the aircraft was parked.

    A

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    Default 8th AAF Hurricane

    Hi,

    From "Losses of the 8th & 9th Air Forces" vol 1.

    8th October 1943.
    Hurricane I
    Z4631
    Pilot: unknown
    Unit: Unknown
    Listed as SAL (salvaged) BD ( Battle damage) by 8th AF HQ on this date.
    No further details.

    Air Brit W1000 - Z9999 has
    Z4631
    1423 Flt/24/USAAF/41 OTU
    Crashed in forced landing on approach, Cranage, 31.3.44.

    From The Mighty Eighth War Manual
    Hawker Hurricane
    Only three Hurricane fighters are known to have been loaned to 8th Air Force, one of which was based at Bovington for a time and used for fast liaison work. Z4631 was salvaged in October and P3757 in December 1943, while V6844 was returned to the RAF in January 1944.

    Acording to Camouflage & Markings No:21
    These Hurricanes did not receive US insignia.
    And,
    P3757 8 AF HQ Relinquished 20.12.44
    V6844 8 AF HQ Relinquished 24.01.44

    There is a photo (Airfix Clasic No:4) of Col. L.B. Hillsinger at Hendon in 1943 walking away from V6844 which is in British markings.

    So looks like she (Z4631) was returned to the RAF after repairs, sometime between October 43 and March 44.

    Just a thought BD could it also have meant Badly damaged ? and not Battle damage.

    Also for info I found that
    41 OTU was at Chilbolton, which was under USAAF Control at this time. So perhaps she (Z4631) never even left the Air Base and might have been repaired and used for training on site (?)

    Alex
    Last edited by Alex Smart; 22nd May 2008 at 13:57.

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    Hate to nitpick Alex, but No 41 OTU was still at Hawarden (satellite Poulton) and of course Cranage is only about 20 miles away. Didn't move to Chilbolton till March 45.

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    Default Hurricanes with 416 NFS

    Gentlemen,

    Since Hawker Hurricanes with USAAF is the subject of discussion, I thought the following information relating to Hurricanes attached to the 416th NFS in the MTO may be of interest. Even though this unit flew radar-equipped Beaufighter aircraft, all pilots had to be fully-qualified to fly single-engine fighter aircraft. Therefore, the USAAF attached two Hurricanes to the 416th to keep their pilots current with single-engine performance flying. As a result, the Hurricanes were often used as speedy transport aircraft when required.

    Talmadge Simpson, radar-operator on 416 NFS Beaufighter and Mosquito aircraft mentioned this fact during an interview.

    Yours very truly,
    Norman Malayney

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    Norman,
    Interesting note of something not commonly known by the average enthusiast, so many thanks for bringing this to notice of other forumites.
    David Duxbury

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    Default Many thanks for this perusal of the facts

    I am concerned about the source material. Amrit pointed out at the beginning of the debate that the date provided by 3 members previously (being 8th Oct 1943) was wrong, and should be 22nd Oct.
    Alex, Leendert's and Dave W's source material was "Losses of the 8th & 9th Air Forces" vol 1. (thanks Alex) it seems.
    So which came first please a)
    the 'Losses of the 8th & 9th' as above or
    b) Amrits suggested website
    http://www.aviationarchaeology.com/src/AARmonthly/Oct1942O.htm
    where I am advised I could purchase a copy?

    Interesting the Hurricanes were in fact on loan to the USAAAC by the RAF.
    Interesting too that they were used for training and transport during this time (Oct 1943)

    Dave

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