Results 1 to 5 of 5

Thread: Irish weather stations and D Day

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Ireland
    Posts
    121
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts

    Default Irish weather stations and D Day

    Some questions for our Met experts Brian and Peter.
    On the evening prior to the D Day operations, it has been reported that phone calls were received at the Irish weather station at Blacksod (Co. Mayo) asking to confirm the actual up to date weather situation off the Irish coast. It has not been established (to my personal knowledge) the source of these UK phone calls.
    My questions gentlemen are, where did these calls originate from?
    In the light of the fact that the other station in Neutral Ireland at Malin, Valentia and Roches Point also sent daily met reports, were these stations also contacted?
    Where in the N/A Kew would documentation be located in order to shed some light on these contacts?
    Many thanks.
    Tony K

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Reading, Berkshire, UK
    Posts
    3,527
    Thanks
    2
    Thanked 11 Times in 11 Posts

    Default

    Tony,
    As you well know, Ireland was not, strictly speaking, "neutral" in WW2. At one stage Churchill contemplated the 'occupation' of Ireland. The RAF were allowed a 'corridor' across 'Irish' territory for their N Atlantic Ops/Recces from Aldergrove, etc, etc. Comms from Dublin (i.e. the German legation) went through London (and could be "listened" to) - but whether they also sent them via the N Atlantic cables to N America, and thence to Germany is not known. Lyffe on this Forum is the expert! Hope he is listening out on the cct!
    HTH
    Peter Davies
    Last edited by Resmoroh; 16th July 2015 at 17:50.
    Meteorology is a science; good meteorology is an art!
    We might not know - but we might know who does!

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Posts
    621
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post

    Default

    Hello Tony

    Suggestions only:-
    http://discovery.nationalarchives.go...=range&_ro=any
    BJ 5/83
    BJ 5/75
    BJ 5/58 1938-1941 but dealing with transfer of Shannon Airport to Eire and too early

    BJ 5/171 & BJ 5/149 are TAF

    Also 'Atlantic' or 'war' searches in BJ 5?

    Mark
    Last edited by Mark Hood; 16th July 2015 at 17:46.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Wiltshire
    Posts
    2,497
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts

    Default

    Tony,

    There was no direct communications link between Blacksod and 'London' as most of the accounts in the Irish press describe. The Blacksod observations, like other Irish observations, were sent by telegram to the Irish Met Service collecting centre at Dublin. From there, as a collective, they were sent by teleprinter to the Met Office's Central Forecast Office at Dunstable for further distribution to all UK met offices on the teleprinter network. Even had there been a direct link to 'London' there would have been no need to check an observation an hour after it had been sent, as it would have already been superceded by the next hourly observation. I accept a telephone call might well have been received, but that was almost certainly from the Dublin collecting centre as the forecasters there were probably not expecting any change to previous conditions (I've checked the charts).

    Any forecast, for one day, let alone two or three days ahead, is never based on a single observation from one station; such an observation is but one very tiny piece of the whole jigsaw that makes up a weather map. Forecasters look at the whole picture not one speck.

    I'd prefer not to say any more as I'm currently writing a series of articles about the D-day forecast - and the myths that have grown up around it over the years. What I will say is that the idea that the English Channel was lashed by gales and rain on 5th June is pure bunkam. Had that been the case the invasion fleet would never have been able to leave port and cross the Channel. In fact there never were gales in the Channel at any time during the period - over Ireland and the north part of the Irish Sea on the 4th, but not south of the Bristol Channel.

    Most accounts of the D-day forecast are based on the book written by General Eisenhower's met advisor, James Stagg, Forecast for Overlord. I regret to say his version is not to be trusted, and a year ago I gave a presentation to the Royal Met Society highlighting some of the areas where the book's veracity does not stand up to scrutiny. I'd be happy to copy it to you should you wish.

    Brian

    Edit. I think you should also remember that, as Ireland was a sovereign state, Allied meteorologists had no authority to directly approach Irish nationals in this way. Any query would have been addressed to the HQ of the Irish Meteorological Service, not to an individual.
    Last edited by Lyffe; 17th July 2015 at 08:28. Reason: Another thought

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Ireland
    Posts
    121
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts

    Default

    Thanks Peter as you may know we (Ireland ) were neutral against Germany!
    Thanks Mark for the references will save so much of my limited time at Kew.
    Brian I have sent a PM to you, thanks for such an interesting reply.
    Regards

    Tony K

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •