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Thread: 434 Sqn ORB for Late 1944

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    Default 434 Sqn ORB for Late 1944

    Good morning all

    I am following a post on a Facebook Bomber Command site which is trying to track down the service of a gentlemen who passed away in a care home in Devon with no living relatives. Amongst his possessions were some photographs and a aircrew jacket (1950s vintage). The care home and several others are trying to find out more about the gentleman's service in order to track down relatives or just know a bit more about him for his funeral. The gentleman in question is Stanley Gordon Grieve Smith who was born in 1924. One of the photographs is a crew picture in front of a Halifax bomber and on the back has the following names and crew positions:

    Sgt A.B. Gardner (Pilot);
    Sgt W.F. Costello (Nav);
    Sgt R.R. Lunn (B/A);
    Sgt R.F. Sculthorpe (W/Op);
    Sgt B.A. Stevens (M/AG);
    Sgt S. Smith (F/E);
    Sgt E.G. Boyd (R/AG)

    I have found a FO RR Lunn RCAF flying with 434 Sqn and being awarded the DFC (London Gazette 01 Jan 1945), my assumption is that this is the Bomb Aimer in the crew and that the recently deceased gentleman is the Flight Engineer. The care home also believe that it is him in the photo.

    If anyone has the ORB can they check to see if this crew flew with 434.

    Many thanks

    Daz

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    Hello,

    Don't think so!

    174505 F/O Ronald Frederick SCULTHORPE DFC RAFVR 434 Sqn (RCAF). LG: 19/1/1945. p.470

    https://www.thegazette.co.uk/London/...supplement/470

    176715 P/O Stanley SMITH DFC RAFVR 434 Sqn (RCAF) LG: 19/1/1945 p.471

    https://www.thegazette.co.uk/London/...supplement/471

    Col.
    Last edited by COL BRUGGY; 21st January 2016 at 12:22.

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    434 Sdn ORB is split over two microfilm reels, they can both be viewed on line at:

    http://heritage.canadiana.ca/view/oo...ac_reel_c12309
    http://heritage.canadiana.ca/view/oo...ac_reel_c12310

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    Quote Originally Posted by COL BRUGGY View Post
    Hello,

    Don't think so!

    174505 F/O Ronald Frederick SCULTHORPE DFC RAFVR 434 Sqn (RCAF). LG: 19/1/1945. p.470

    https://www.thegazette.co.uk/London/...supplement/470

    176715 P/O Stanley SMITH DFC RAFVR 434 Sqn (RCAF) LG: 19/1/1945 p.471

    https://www.thegazette.co.uk/London/...supplement/471

    Col.
    Col

    sorry Im confused, you don't think what?

    Regards

    Daz

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    Thanks for posting Bill and Col. I think Ive confirmed that the Lunn I was looking for was part of Gardner's crew on 434 as I found this on the RCAF Association site:

    LUNN, F/O Ross Raymond (J85179) - Distinguished Flying Cross - No.434 Squadron - Award effective 6 January 1945 as per London Gazette dated 16 January 1945 and AFRO 508/45 dated 23 March 1945. Born 1923 in Millbrook, Ontario; home there; enlisted Toronto, 29 April 1942. Trained at No.6 ITS (graduated 9 October 1942) and No.4 AOS (graduated 22 January 1943). Commissioned 1944. Served in postwar RCAF (30717) and still on Reserve strength as of 1970. Died in Ottawa, 21 August 2010. Bomb aimer in F/O A.B. Gardner\'s crew. No citation other than \"completed...numerous operations against the enemy in the course of which [he has] invariably displayed the utmost fortitude, courage and devotion to duty.\" DHist file 181.009 D.3080 (RG.24 Vol.20636) has recommendation (undated) when he had flown 39 sorties (192 hours 40 minutes), 22 October 1943 to 12 September 1944. Flying Officer Lunn has completed a tour of operations totalling thirty-nine operations, seven of which were against heavily defended German targets. He has also participated in minelaying operations in the Kiel and Baltic areas. He has invariably displayed a high degree of courage and skill and his example has been worthy of emulation. His fine offensive spirit has been an example to all crews.

    It would appear that Gardner also got commissioned, perhaps Smith did as well.
    Last edited by 78SqnHistory; 21st January 2016 at 12:40.

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    Daz,

    The Flight Engineer is named simply as, "Stanley Smith" in the LG.

    1645046 Stanley SMITH (176715)

    https://www.thegazette.co.uk/London/...upplement/3333

    Let's wait until someone takes a look at the ORB.

    Col.
    Last edited by COL BRUGGY; 21st January 2016 at 13:24.

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    As i have stated on the page concerned, there is a lot of thinly "clutching at straws" going on, just through not taking the time to search properly. The reference to 434sqdn is because the number 887 was found in his possessions along with a painting of a Halifax, so people are jumping to the conclusion.... Halifax LK887 ? even though the Hali in the painting is a 644sqdn aircraft. I have aircraft paintings, but i did'nt fly in any of them. Also pictured are medals which include the DFC and DFM, and i cannot find any link to him, (but i'm not perfect) The gentleman concerned is Stanley Gordon Grieve Smith, possibly 1890877 as this number was issued to a Stanley Gordon Smith (no Grieve on card)
    Last edited by AlanW; 21st January 2016 at 14:50.

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    Quote Originally Posted by AlanW View Post
    As i have stated on the page concerned, there is a lot of thinly "clutching at straws" going on, just through not taking the time to search properly.
    Alan

    I agree, I think that the key pieces of information are the fact that his name is known and that he was in possession of the named crew photograph. I think the photo of the medal group is of no help, neither is the picture of the Halifax in flight or the pilots jacket, add to this there are the unsubstantiated claims that he served on 138 Sqn; what a mess. However, the fact that the Bomb Aimer in the photo is named as RR Lunn and that there is a RR Lunn awarded a DFC as part of FO AB Gardner's crew, links that together and I believe that the possibility that the Mr Smith in question could well be the Smith in the crew as Flight Engineer, otherwise why would he have kept the photo?

    Regards
    Daz

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    Daz,
    Why the photo indeed ? but the man concerned was "supposedly" a pilot, not a flight engineer, but as you say, the picture of the jacket with pilots wings could well be another red herring. I have the 138 and the 434 ORB's but have too much on at the moment to go looking through them, but if time permits, i'll have a look over the weekend.

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    Daz,
    Could'nt leave it go till weekend "ha ha" so had a look at the 434 ORB and the Smith in the Gardener crew along with Lunn, was 1645046 S. Smith, so 1890877 S G G Smith is not the Smith in the photo.

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