Results 1 to 5 of 5

Thread: Air Force Cross ciation for NOT granted award (where to find original text)?

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Posts
    112
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts

    Default Air Force Cross ciation for NOT granted award (where to find original text)?

    Dear all,

    Is it possible to find an original citation (proposal) for the Air Force Cross (AFC) which was NOT approved at Higher Levels (Station Commander or HQ RAF)? I mean, to find the proposed document that was not approved (Gazetted)?

    If there are list of such NOT approved awards, where to find them (lists)? Are they stored on Kew? Where? Which are the Files ?

    Thanks
    Adriano S. Baumgartner

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Prague, Czech Republic
    Posts
    3,580
    Thanks
    24
    Thanked 16 Times in 15 Posts

    Default

    Hi Adriano,

    I was able to located in TNA Kew only non-immediate and immediate awards - both only approved ones.

    For example:
    http://discovery.nationalarchives.go...e+dates=Refine

    I do not want to be pessimistic but I am afraid that documents of not approved awards did not survived - maybe someone would be able to correct me - but the only thing I was able to find out document of the award which was originally proposed ac the George Cross and during the approval procedure was changed to the MBE.

    One more additional note - you have to make a difference between terms "approved" and "gazetted" - all British decorations awarded during the WWII to the Czechoslovak airmen (the same is valid for other European nationalities whose country of origin was under German occupation) were not "gazetted" for security reasons - to protect their relatives left in the occupied countries.

    Best regards

    Pavel
    Czechoslovak Airmen in the RAF 1940-1945
    http://cz-raf.webnode.cz

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Northamptonshire
    Posts
    1,116
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts

    Default

    What dates are you considering in your request?

    In general terms, an award which is not approved will have been rejected at any level in the chain of command and hence will be stopped at that point. It is possible that some feedback was given but unlikely and so most probably the original recommendation would eventually have been shredded when the appropriate files were disposed of.

    However, if an award was rejected but a substitute award granted, the original will probably be with the papers relating to the (probably) lesser award.

    I know from information given me by a friend, that there are some papers relating to unsuccessful recommendations for some very high awards which were not given and these are at the NA.

    I have in my attic and reproduced in a book called: 'Arnhem Sacrifice' a lengthy list of unsuccessful recommendations - including a VC. Furthermore, the book contains a list of awards amongst which there are many substitutions eg MC for DSO, MID for a VC etc.

    Colin Cummings

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Posts
    138
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post

    Default

    Dear All,

    If a recommendation did not warrant approval at Station Commander or Command HQ, then as Old Duffers says, it was not forwarded to the Air Ministry and was scrapped. However, many recommendations reached Air Ministry and were rejected there - these survive in the same files as successful bids. For example, I have the AFC group of medals to Sqn Ldr J.R. AYLING whose successful recommendation was gazetted in the Birthday Honours 8 June 1944. However, in the Air Ministry files are two previous attempts to get him the AFC, firstly for the Birthday Honours 1942 and secondly for the NYH 1943. The second attempt was down-graded to a King's Commendation for Valuable Services in the Air gazetted in the NYH 1943 awards. I have copies of all three recommendations from files in the National Archives.

    Cheers

    Jim

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Posts
    112
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts

    Default

    Pavel, Colin and Jim,

    You both gave me glimpses where to search, etc...however I guess that JIM answered what I was afraid of hearing...if the recommendation was not approved at a low level (Station or Group), it was probably scrapped and NOT registered or saved!
    Regarding the date I am looking for: 1946
    PAVEL. thank you for the information about the foreigners awards not being gazetted. You mentioned all the Czechs, but I have not seen CLOSTERMANN's citations either! (neither other Frenchmen).
    JIM...I have seen a DSO proposal which was down-graded to a BAR for the DFC...but on that particular case I am looking for, this may have been the sole "gong" the Officer was propposed for, on his entire career...so, as I know it was NOT granted or approved...I believed that, at least, as a Formal RAF Document, it could have survived and could have been digitalized. Your answer points me to the other probability: that it may have been destroyed phisically speaking...

    Thank you for your patience and sharing your knowledge. I have learned quite a lot from you and about this subject. Will try to find it, even though the chances are slim.

    Adriano

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •