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Thread: Strange RAF/RAFVR serial Numbers on CWGC

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    Default Strange RAF/RAFVR serial Numbers on CWGC

    I happened upon these entries on CWGC while using Geoff's search engine, RAF airmen with a letter in the database for their serial number, I think they are just scannign errors in the most part, teh databases were created from scanning the paper copies so errors crept in. The R/numbers may in one case be due to the Squadron being Candian and the serial numbers may have gotten misplaced as Canadian serial numbers.

    Henk, or anyone else, you may have old printed CWGC registers, can you check these names and if different in the old registers I'll notify the CWGC.

    ************************************************** *****

    Name: ALLAN, HARRY BAIN

    Nationality: United Kingdom
    Rank: Sergeant (Flt. Engr.)
    Regiment/Service: Royal Air Force Volunteer Reserve
    Unit Text: 78 Sqdn.
    Age: 18
    Date of Death: 23/04/1944
    Service No: 1821830RAF
    Grave/Memorial Reference: Sec. X.E. Grave 553.
    Cemetery: DUNDEE EASTERN NECROPOLIS

    Name: ASPLIN, REGINALD HERBERT
    Rank: Sergeant (Air Gnr.)
    Regiment/Service: Royal Air Force Volunteer Reserve
    Unit Text: 142 Sqdn.
    Age: 29
    Date of Death: 05/05/1944
    Service No: B/1300028
    Grave/Memorial Reference: XI. F. 33.
    Cemetery: BARI WAR CEMETERY

    Name: RAMSAY, HOWARD WILLIAM
    Rank: Flight Sergeant (Pilot)
    Regiment/Service: Royal Air Force
    Age: 23
    Date of Death: 11/09/1944
    Service No: E 571776
    Grave/Memorial Reference: Panel 3.
    Cemetery: BRISTOL (ARNOS VALE) CREMATORIUM

    Name: GIBSON, EDWARD GEORGE
    Rank: Leading Aircraftman
    Regiment/Service: Royal Air Force Volunteer Reserve
    Date of Death: 14/06/1943
    Service No: 913057 ------> G/3057 ?????
    Grave/Memorial Reference: 10. C. 2.
    Cemetery: AMBON WAR CEMETERY

    Name: CROUCH, SYDNEY
    Rank: Leading Aircraftman
    Regiment/Service: Royal Air Force Volunteer Reserve
    Age: 21
    Date of Death: 21/12/1942
    Service No: H271329
    Grave/Memorial Reference: Square 226. Grave 110616.
    Cemetery: CITY OF LONDON CEMETERY AND CREMATORIUM, MANOR PARK

    Name: ELKINGTON, ALFRED
    Rank: Sergeant (Flt. Engr.)
    Regiment/Service: Royal Air Force Volunteer Reserve
    Unit Text: 640 Sqdn.
    Age: 33
    Date of Death: 16/02/1944
    Service No: H66810
    Grave/Memorial Reference: Sec. C. Cons. Grave 250.
    Cemetery: LEICESTER (SAFFRON HILL) CEMETERY

    Name: CRAWSHAW, HARRY WINSTON
    Rank: Leading Aircraftman
    Regiment/Service: Royal Air Force Volunteer Reserve
    Age: 19
    Date of Death: 24/09/1942
    Service No: J529845
    Grave/Memorial Reference: Div. O. Sec. A. Grave 89.
    Cemetery: HASTINGS CEMETERY, Sussex

    Name: SLATER, SAMUEL
    Rank: Sergeant (W.Op./Air Gnr.)
    Regiment/Service: Royal Air Force Volunteer Reserve
    Age: 26
    Date of Death: 24/10/1941
    Service No: L1326353
    Grave/Memorial Reference: Sec. U. Row 53. Grave 52.
    Cemetery: EDMONTON FEDERATION JEWISH CEMETERY

    Name: BEARE, WALTER PERCY
    Rank: Sergeant (W.Op./Air Gnr.)
    Regiment/Service: Royal Air Force Volunteer Reserve
    Unit Text: 405 (R.C.A.F.) Sqdn
    Date of Death: 30/06/1942
    Service No: R/1284966
    Casualty Type: Commonwealth War Dead
    Grave/Memorial Reference: Plot G. Row 1. Grave 4.
    Cemetery: WESTSTELLINGWERF (NOORDWOLDE) PROTESTANT CHURCHYARD
    ***RCAF Squadron, so probably the source of the error.

    Name: SHUTE, MONTAGUE ROGER

    Rank: Flying Officer (Nav.)
    Regiment/Service: Royal Air Force Volunteer Reserve
    Unit Text: 622 Sqdn.
    Age: 28
    Date of Death: 25/07/1944
    Service No: R/155125
    Grave/Memorial Reference: 1A. C. 2.
    Cemetery: CHOLOY WAR CEMETERY
    1254029 Montague Roger SHUTE (155123). 23rd Dec. 1942.

    Name: WHEELER, CHARLES
    Rank: Warrant Officer
    Regiment/Service: Royal Air Force
    Age: 59
    Date of Death: 26/07/1945
    Service No: SR4
    Awards: Mentioned in Despatches
    Cemetery: ORFORD (ST. BARTHOLOMEW) CHURCHYARD

    Name: BOOTH, HUBERT ALLAN
    Rank: Sergeant (Flt. Engr.)
    Regiment/Service: Royal Air Force
    Unit Text: 35 Sqdn.
    Age: 30
    Date of Death: 28/04/1942
    Service No: S/9995
    Grave/Memorial Reference: A IV British. J. 13.
    Cemetery: TRONDHEIM (STAVNE) CEMETERY

    Name: HEARD, DOUGLILS THOM
    Rank: Sergeant (W. Op.)
    Regiment/Service: Royal Air Force
    Unit Text: 99 Sqdn.
    Age: 20
    Date of Death: 18/09/1940
    Service No: S/647632
    Grave/Memorial Reference: Coll. grave 9. B. 20-23.
    Cemetery: RHEINBERG WAR CEMETERY

    Name: MOORE, CHARLES WILLIAM
    Rank: Sergeant (Flt. Engr.)
    Regiment/Service: Royal Air Force Volunteer Reserve
    Unit Text: 78 Sqdn.
    Age: 23
    Date of Death: 24/08/1943
    Service No: S/937174
    Grave/Memorial Reference: 2. E. 10.
    Cemetery: BERLIN 1939-1945 WAR CEMETERY

    Name: HINTON, DENIS RALPH
    Rank: Leading Aircraftman
    Regiment/Service: Royal Air Force Volunteer Reserve
    Date of Death: 16/09/1945
    Service No: T/866380
    Grave/Memorial Reference: S.W. Part. Grave 39.
    Cemetery: CLOPHILL (ST. MARY) CHURCHYARD EXTENSION

    Name: WILDBORE, BRIAN OSBORNE
    Rank: Aircraftman 2nd Class
    Regiment/Service: Royal Air Force Volunteer Reserve
    Age: 19
    Date of Death: 04/09/1944
    Service No: 181361X
    Grave/Memorial Reference: Panel 6.
    Cemetery: STOCKPORT CREMATORIUM
    Last edited by dennis_burke; 2nd February 2010 at 15:38.
    Dennis Burke
    - Dublin

    Foreign Aircrew and Aircraft Ireland 1939-1945
    www.ww2irishaviation.com

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    Hi Dennis,

    I have the following from a file I made in October 2008 using the details from CWGC website for Sgt Booth buried in Trondheim Stavne Cemetery. It looks like the first two numbers, 5 and 1, of the service number have been replaced with the letter 'S' and a '/' forward slash in the records you have found.

    This is the info as I have it.
    Name BOOTH, Hubert Allan
    Nationality UK
    Rank Sergeant (Flight Engineer)
    Regiment/Service Royal Air Force
    Unit 35 Squadron
    Age 30
    Date of Death 28/04/42
    Service No 519995
    Additional Info Son of Tom Bramley Booth and Edith Booth.
    Casualty Type Commonwealth War Dead
    Grave Reference A IV British J 13

    Hope that helps, what a disaster if they have so many that have been changed in a similar way!

    Regards
    Linzee

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    Thanks Linzee, just what I thought, I think their internal databases and online ones are slightly different, above names are from a complete search for the entrie elphabet in Geoff's database so I'm fairly happy this is all there is???
    Dennis Burke
    - Dublin

    Foreign Aircrew and Aircraft Ireland 1939-1945
    www.ww2irishaviation.com

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    Hi Dennis
    Got the fpllowing from Chorley Vol 9
    Allan,H B, 1821830
    Elkington,A, 1166810
    Slater, S, 1326363
    Beare,W P, 1284966
    Shute M R(the one for 1944), 155125.The name does not appear in 1942
    Heard,D T, 647632
    add Moore,C W, 937174,Chorley also has Linzee's detail for Booth,H A
    The numbers are all straightforward in Chorley with no prefix or suffix and look completely normal.It would seem that there were many typos at some stage of the transposition(s)
    Regards
    Dick
    Last edited by Dick; 2nd February 2010 at 17:58. Reason: Extra Names

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    Thanks folks,

    I'll just send the list into them.

    Dennis
    Dennis Burke
    - Dublin

    Foreign Aircrew and Aircraft Ireland 1939-1945
    www.ww2irishaviation.com

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    Over the past few days I have come across RCAF men missing the prefix letter in their service numbers.

    By crosschecking with the LAC's database I see the problem is at the CWGC's end.

    I just hope this isn't the beginning of their "improvements" which we all witnessed firsthand last fall.

    Dave

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    14 of 15 sorted out, one was not an error and they say WO C Wheeler is SR4 per the data they were given at the time.

    To quote:
    Dear Mr Burke

    Thank you for your e mail of 2 February. Please accept our apologies for the delay in reply. Due to the high volume of enquiries received by our offices we currently have a backlog we are working to clear.

    We are grateful to you for pointing out the various errors in sixteen of the casualty details which we record. With regard to fourteen of those mentioned, I would explain that when our records were scanned to form our database some errors did unfortunately occur because of the age and variable quality of the material and print. Naturally, we are keen to ensure that all such errors are corrected, however small, and, again, I am grateful to you for drawing this to our attention. We have amended the scanning errors concerned, but please note that the amended versions will not appear on our website until later in the year. This is due to ongoing technical problems we are experiencing. "

    The following record contains: "precisely the information as provided to us after the war by the service authorities"

    Warrant Officer WHEELER, CHARLES
    Awards: Mentioned in Despatches
    Regiment: Royal Air Force
    Service No: SR4
    Age: 59
    Date of Death: 26 July 1945
    Commemoration: ORFORD (ST. BARTHOLOMEW) CHURCHYARD
    United Kingdom"
    Dennis Burke
    - Dublin

    Foreign Aircrew and Aircraft Ireland 1939-1945
    www.ww2irishaviation.com

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    I suppose teh only way of solving this is to try and find him on the RAF List or in London Gazette he was a W.O after all

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    SR4 Charles Wheeler has an entry on pp463-464 of McInnes and Webb's 'A Contempible Little Flying Corps, pub by The London Stamp Exchange Ltd in 1991. There has been a later, revised edition published since, I believe. The 1991 ed says:

    Part 5
    Numbers SR1 to SR25
    The Special Reservists

    The following 25 men can certainly be said to qualify for inclusion in this book. They were the Special Reservists who enlisted into the Reserve on the formation of the Royal Flying Corps and who were recalled at the outbreak of the war for the duration. A number of officers of the Special Reserve in other Corps and in Regiments also joined the RFC but these are the other ranks:- ...

    SR4. Charles Wheeler
    Recalled 5 August, 1914. Initially was 2AM with No.6 Squadron. Served overseas from 2 April, 1915, he was entitled to 1914/15 trio. Promoted to Sergeant (Fitter general) 1 December, 1916 and retained that rank and trade in April, 1918 RAF Muster Roll. Remained in the RAF after the war and was awarded his RAF L.S. & G.C. as a Flight Sergeant with effect from 5 August, 1932. Appointed Warrant Officer, 27 January, 1935 and in 1938 (March) A.F.L. is shown as serving at RAF Abingdon (HQ, No. 1 Bomber Group) from 22 February, 1937. 81st senior Warrant Officer in November, 1941 A.F.L. and 39th senior in October, 1944.

    Curiously, the authors don't appear to have picked up on his having died in 1945.

    Wheeler must be a rare bird on the CWGC, having such long service dating back to the very formation of the RFC in 1912.

    Errol

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    Errol

    Thanks for the information. I have learnt something new today! I don't suppose if I ask politely and for the record. Please could you list all the 24 men and their numbers??

    Many Thanks

    Paul

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