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Thread: 116068 Frederick John McIntosh 576 Sqn. P.O.W.?

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    Default 116068 Frederick John McIntosh 576 Sqn. P.O.W.?

    On the night of 3-4 May 1944,the above airman was M.U.G.on board Lancaster ME703 of 576 Squadron.After a fighter attack which killed the rear gunner,he was reported to have bailed out somewhere in the target area.However,he is not reported as a P.O.W.in any of the literature I have seen,notably'Footprints on the Sands of Time' and Chorley,but is on Ross McNeill's list on this site.He is listed in the squadron O.R.B. as missing.Can anyone confirm his fate one way or another?Is there a Liberation Questionnaire for him?
    Many thanks,Mark
    Last edited by MSIMPSON; 18th July 2016 at 16:00.

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    Perhaps he baled out and managed to evade, thus he never became a POW. He would show as 'missing' on the Sqn ORB as missing by default.

    What year are you talking about?

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    Hello

    He's not listed in "Conscript heroes" list of evaders (from the evaders' report in the WO 208 series at Kew).

    If he's on Ross' list on this site, the best option is to check the Mac/Mc Intosh in the WO344 series at Kew, which should definitively answer the question. Although a few PoWs didn't file questionnaire in 1945 (mostly those who had been repatriated earlier, on medical grounds, but not only them).

    Joss

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    Hello.
    Thanks for that ,missed out the year,which should be 1944.Have edited the original question.He does not show up in any literature on evaders I have seen,notably Oliver Clutton-Brock's 'R.A.F.Evaders' book.
    Many thanks,Mark.

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    Hi Joss,
    That is doubtless the thing to do.
    Many thanks,Mark.

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    Mark

    What makes you think he was a POW? It may be an error in the ORB. In Chorley it states that the aircraft made it back to base, there is no mention of anyone baling out and that the only casualty was the Rear Gunner. To quote Chorley fully:

    "T/O 2140 Elsham Wolds similarly tasked. Badly shot about by a Ju88, whose fire killed the rear gunner, Sgt Hodson. The crew managed to regain base, landing at 0345, though their aircraft was beyond repair. Sgt Hodson lies in Stafford Cemetery."

    Your man isn't listed the Air Force POW list published by HMSO. I have checked for both McIntosh and MacIntosh, but no matches. I also can't find any matches in WO344.

    AIR 14/3463 shows the aircraft in question returning to base, damaged by fighters categorised as CAT E.

    So it doesn't look as though he was missing or POW.

    Regards

    Daz
    Last edited by 78SqnHistory; 18th July 2016 at 16:42. Reason: Additional information

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    Hi Daz,
    The 576 Sqn O.R.B. lists him in two separate entries as being missing,which I take to mean that he wasn't on the aircraft when it crash landed at base.I have recently come across an account of the fighter attack on this aircraft which states fairly clearly that he bailed out of the aircraft somewhere in the target area.Given the lack of evidence of him being a P.O.W.or an evader,I am interested in trying to find out what happened.He perhaps bailed out of the aircraft somewhere over the U.K.,I don't know,but would like to find out,if possible.The fact you can't find him in WO344 is helpful,as I am not familiar with these records and live a long way from London.
    Thank for your time and efforts,
    Regards,Mark.
    Last edited by MSIMPSON; 18th July 2016 at 17:47.

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    Mark

    I have come across a similar case during my research on 78 Sqn, where an aircraft was attacked by fighters and during the ensuing confusion the order to bale out was given; one crew member baled out before the order to abandon was countermanded by the skipper and the aircraft and the remaining crew subsequently returned to the UK and crash landed. My chap is listed in the POW Register and in the Squadron ORB as missing, Chorley also has him as POW. I also found some more detail from the Station ORB. My man isn't in the POW Liberation Questionaires, but as already mentioned not all POWs completed one, lots didn't and after the end of the war I believe that the focus switched to those who had witnessed atrocities, collaboration etc or had participated in escape attempts.

    Have you been able to see, in the ORB, if the crew return to operations? If they do and he doesn't then clearly the chances that he baled out and were taken prisoner are increased.
    If you can prove that the gentleman has died you could try applying to the MoD for his service record.

    Regards

    Daz
    Last edited by 78SqnHistory; 18th July 2016 at 19:17.

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    Hi Daz,
    The crew in question does return to operations with a pair of replacement gunners until going missing on 22-23/5/44.I have not yet found any other sorties for my man with 576 Sqn. Coincidentally,I know of at least one other case of partial abandonment of an aircraft on the Mailly-le-Camp attack concerning a 550 Sqn aircraft where both gunners and the air bomber left the aircraft after the order was given after flak and fighter damage but where the pilot regained control and returned safely.The lack of any confirmation makes it appear that F.J.McIntosh was not a P.O.W. and that maybe the report about the attack is in error about the time and place of his bail out,or indeed if he bailed out at all.
    Thanks and regards,Mark.

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    Mark

    I've just checked the WO 416 series (German POW cards) and there are no matches there either. Do you have access to the ORB? It maybe worthwhile looking to see if there is any mention of him being posted out to a base unit or to a OTU etc. Perhaps he parachuted out over the UK and was screened and posted out? Interesting, I love a good mystery like this. I notice that he stays in the RAF after the war until 1954 and leaves as a Flight Lieutenant.

    Regards
    Daz

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