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Thread: David Crawford

  1. #1
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    Default David Crawford

    Good afternoon everyone,
    I have a query regarding a report giving details of the loss of a Lancaster & its crew. I have all the details about the aircraft & the crew but the report lists the place of the crash as Deelen Airfield E 7586.There is also a reference to place of burial of the crew as Moscowa General Cemetary E 7580.
    There is also a reference on the report which is 2 MREU/2059/AIR/X 1474

    Can anyone identify the meaning of the E 7586. I presume it must be some map reference as Deelen Airfield & the Moscowa Cemetery are in the same area & have similar reference numbers.
    My intention is to locate more accurately the crash site of the Aircraft, a Lancaster Serial No. ME810 of 576 Squadron.

    Thanks in advance

    David Crawford

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    Hi David,

    You have part of a European Theatre map grid.

    http://www.echodelta.net/mbs/eng-grids.php

    Look for the Netherlands and you will find it under the Nord de Guerre Zone.

    click this area and you will be taken to:
    http://www.echodelta.net/mbs/eng-grids.php#s4

    Looking for something E gives the code qE as most probable for the area.

    Go back to the main page and select the co-ordinates translator.

    http://www.echodelta.net/mbs/eng-translator.php

    Now change the grid drop down box to Nord de Guerre Zone

    and put qE7580 into the search box.

    Hit Convert and you will be given the Lat/Long.

    Finally select the Mapquest box and it will give the local map

    http://atlas.mapquest.com/maps/map.adp?latlongtype=decimal&latitude=52.0044379262 25&longitude=5.9170483894271

    The cemetery is in Arnhem just west of the N784

    Regards
    Ross
    The Intellectual Property contained in this message has been assigned specifically to this web site.
    Copyright Ross McNeill 2015/2018 - All rights reserved.

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    Hi David,

    Deelen airfield is on the heather directlty west of Arnhem. Starting out as a grass airfield, it dates back to the very early days of aviation in The Netherlands. During WW2, the Germans expanded the base, installed Flak, and had their large air defence control bunker in that area. The radar station at the site was codenamed "Teerosen". Today, only a few concrete slabs from Flak platforms or the like remain from the German presence. After the war, Deelen was used by the Allies to store surplus vehicles for a while. The base is still there, still military, but there is only a helicopter group operational on a small section of the base today. The base is to be closed soon. In the east corner, there is a small private airwar museum that I can recommend highly. The guys over there know about everything that went on in that area.

    Arnhem Moscowa Cemetery, actually located in the city of Oosterbeek, is south of the A12 motorway that runs between Deelen & Oosterbeek, from Arnhem to The Hague. If you would need Moscowa headstone pics, let me know.

    Lancaster ME 810 crashed on the Deelenseweg close to the airfield. Possibly one of several aircraft shot down by Deelen Flak. Finding the exact site may be difficult. The area is part of the Veluwe, a National Park. I have asked the Warden of the park if there would be an elderly gamekeeper, who could pinpoint the site of a similar crash, that took the life of a Dutch RAF aviator. No succes. But the Deelen Museum guys might know. Check out http://www.museumvlbdeelen.nl/index-1.html

    Rob
    Last edited by Rob Philips; 19th June 2008 at 15:42. Reason: typo corrected

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    Hi David,

    If you use Google Earth, and key in "Deelen" and "Netherlands", you'll see the airfield. The Deelenseweg is the one directly east of the airfield, running south to north. The Deelenseweg is quite long, so this does not pinpoint the crashsite. The museum is in the top center of the airfied terrain, where the Deelenseweg takes a right turn to the north.

    Rob

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    Default david crawford

    Ross & Rob
    Thanks for the rapid response, I have double checked the data Ross gave just to try the mapping system as detailed & I get the same latitude & logitude as Ross. Inputing these co-ordinates into Flash Earth the crash position shows up to the East of Deelen Airfield, Actually it shows up on the main runway of a local Gliding Club at Deelen, maybe a metel detector would produce something. What I still find amazing is that the position could be logged with such accuracy. The reporting personnel must have been very particular people.

    Well thanks for the Information, I hope to visit the site this year & lay crosses at the graves of all the crew which was a mixed Canadian & British one.

    Regards

    David Crawford

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    Hi David,

    The Deelenseweg runs east of the airfield. You assume that the crash site coordinates are accurate, but do ask the Deelen Museum guys if that would be true. They shall know, especially as it seems that this crash was very close to the museum.

    The accuracy of the wartime airfield location data can be explained by the fact that Deelen was a German base, meaning also an Allied military target, that was well photographed from the air. Cross referencing the photographs with a map of The Netherlands would yield good topographical data for the British when the area was still occupied. Pinpointing the crash site after the liberation would be easy with a map too, if the site was known, or if some of the wreck debris was still there, or if Dutch resistance had recorded the location. All such information is most likely to be available at the museum, that may even have salvaged bits of this aircraft.

    Rob

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    Default Moscowa General Cemetery Arnhem

    Rob,
    I think you made a little mistake where you mentioned that 'Moscowa' was in the city of Oosterbeek (mixed up with the Oosterbeek Airborne Cemetery). Moscowa is located just south of the Openlucht (Open Air) Museum in Arnhem (north).
    Regards,
    Henk.

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    Default

    Thanks, Henk, I stand corrected. I'm not confused with the war cem in Oosterbeek, which lies well within the city limits. Moscowa is on the Oosterbeek edge of Arnhem; the area indeed belongs to the city of Arnhem.

    Rob

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