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Thread: John Lawrence Crisp

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    Default John Lawrence Crisp

    P/O John Lawrence Crisp (37387) killed 8/6/1942 with 122 Squadron.

    Was there another John Lawrence Crisp (112540) also on 122 Squadron?

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    Default J. L. Crisp

    An Officer of this same name was dismissed by Courts Martial per the London Gazette Issue 34408 published on the 15 June 1937. Page 15 of 72

    Pilot Officer John Lawrence CRISP is dismissed the Service by sentence of General Court'Martial. 8th June 1937.

    No serial number is given in these early supplements. Might he have re-enlisted during the war becoming:

    748440 John Lawrence CRISP (112540). 21st Nov. 1941.
    F/Sgt to P/O (Probation)
    Gazette Issue 35408 published on the 6 January 1942. Page 4 of 36

    The NCO batch of serial numbers may be for RAFVR pilots from 1937 onwards.

    Might his serial number in the first instance be 37387? He was born in 1917 so would he be old enough to be a P/O in 1937, aged about 20?

    The first J L Crisp was Commishioned in 1935 listed in
    Gazette Issue 34219 published on the 12 November 1935. Page 18 of 72

    Two names above him is P. E. G. G. Connolly who later during the war can be found to have officer serial number 37385. Hence the Crisp that was dismissed must be 37387?

    Any takers? Can't check Flight as the serach enigne seems to have lost it functionality for finding names with initials like it used to.

    Dennis
    Dennis Burke
    - Dublin

    Foreign Aircrew and Aircraft Ireland 1939-1945
    www.ww2irishaviation.com

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    Default J L Crisp

    if you do a google books sarch for 'J. L. Crisp' you will find references to an officer of this name in 43 Squadron.

    No 43 'Fighting Cocks' Squadron By Andy Saunders has him shot down and breaking his leg in August 1940 and his log book it seems is in UK NAA AIR4/21 reference. Might be worth a check out.

    Dennis
    Dennis Burke
    - Dublin

    Foreign Aircrew and Aircraft Ireland 1939-1945
    www.ww2irishaviation.com

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    Default

    Thanks Dennis. I will follow up your suggestion.

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    Default

    According to http://www.battleofbritain.net/bobhsoc/

    The J L Crisp with 43 Sqn was 112450


    CRISP, Sgt. J. L. 112450. British. 43 Squadron. Killed June 8th 1942**

    Which indicates P/O John Lawrence Crisp (37387) killed 8/6/1942 with 122 Squadron is one and the same as John Lawrence Crisp (112540)


    I wonder what Wynn in Men of Battle of Britain says on this subject?

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    Default

    'Men of the Battle of Britain' also suggests they are the same person.
    Crisp joined the RAF on a short service commission in August 1935.
    He was dismissed from the RAF on 8 June 1937 by sentance of a Court Martial.
    Crisp joined the RAFVR on 28 May 1939 as an Airman U/T Pilot (748440)
    Flew with 43 Sqn in the BoB.
    Commissioned in November 41. He was killed with 122 Sqn 8.6.42 aged 25.

    Andy

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    Default

    Thanks for your replies. The problem is that Crisp (112540) was (748440) before being comissioned, hence the original question. I suspect that CWGC may have used his pre-war number.

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    The RAF Overseas War Deaths 1939-1947 lists Crisp service number as 37387. So I presume the Commonwealth War Graves Commission were given the wrong service number by the RAF !

    I have seen a few cases of court martialled officers returning to the become officers in the RAFVR (W/C W.G Lockhart DSO,DFC KIA 28/4/44).

    Mark

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    Default John Lawrence Crisp

    John Crisp was my uncle. Is there any informationplease on the reason for his court martial? John Birch

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    Default John Lawrence Crisp

    The national archives would not release the full transcript of the courts martial as it involved other unrelated cases, but they have given me copies of correspondence sufficient to identify the reason for John Crisp's (my uncle) dismissal. If anyone is intersted I'm happy to send a private message. The papers show his 'passenger' to be Acting P/O R.B.A. Learoyd who went on to be awarded a VC

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