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Thread: John Lawrence Crisp

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    Default John Lawrence Crisp

    P/O John Lawrence Crisp (37387) killed 8/6/1942 with 122 Squadron.

    Was there another John Lawrence Crisp (112540) also on 122 Squadron?

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    Default J. L. Crisp

    An Officer of this same name was dismissed by Courts Martial per the London Gazette Issue 34408 published on the 15 June 1937. Page 15 of 72

    Pilot Officer John Lawrence CRISP is dismissed the Service by sentence of General Court'Martial. 8th June 1937.

    No serial number is given in these early supplements. Might he have re-enlisted during the war becoming:

    748440 John Lawrence CRISP (112540). 21st Nov. 1941.
    F/Sgt to P/O (Probation)
    Gazette Issue 35408 published on the 6 January 1942. Page 4 of 36

    The NCO batch of serial numbers may be for RAFVR pilots from 1937 onwards.

    Might his serial number in the first instance be 37387? He was born in 1917 so would he be old enough to be a P/O in 1937, aged about 20?

    The first J L Crisp was Commishioned in 1935 listed in
    Gazette Issue 34219 published on the 12 November 1935. Page 18 of 72

    Two names above him is P. E. G. G. Connolly who later during the war can be found to have officer serial number 37385. Hence the Crisp that was dismissed must be 37387?

    Any takers? Can't check Flight as the serach enigne seems to have lost it functionality for finding names with initials like it used to.

    Dennis
    Dennis Burke
    - Dublin

    Foreign Aircrew and Aircraft Ireland 1939-1945
    www.ww2irishaviation.com

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    Default J L Crisp

    if you do a google books sarch for 'J. L. Crisp' you will find references to an officer of this name in 43 Squadron.

    No 43 'Fighting Cocks' Squadron By Andy Saunders has him shot down and breaking his leg in August 1940 and his log book it seems is in UK NAA AIR4/21 reference. Might be worth a check out.

    Dennis
    Dennis Burke
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    Foreign Aircrew and Aircraft Ireland 1939-1945
    www.ww2irishaviation.com

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    Default John Lawrence Crisp

    The national archives would not release the full transcript of the courts martial as it involved other unrelated cases, but they have given me copies of correspondence sufficient to identify the reason for John Crisp's (my uncle) dismissal. If anyone is intersted I'm happy to send a private message. The papers show his 'passenger' to be Acting P/O R.B.A. Learoyd who went on to be awarded a VC

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    Default Re: John Lawrence Crisp

    Tuesday 15 December 1936 , Nottingham Evening Post , Nottinghamshire, England
    R.A.F. BOMBER OVERTURNS. PILOT OFICER'S ESCAPE FORCED LANDING.


    An R.A.F. bombing plane crashed at ' Stringers Common, Worplesdon,
    near Guildford, to-day. There was only one pilot in the machine—Pilot-Officer
    J. L. Crisp, who was flying from Brooklands to Worthy Down—
    he was uninjured. The machine made a forced landing ... Apparently this was a ferry flight and a pictureof him and the upturned planes is in Leicester Chronicle - Saturday 19 December 1936 Picture Hind K6643 later W/O 31 March 1938 - K File says ferry flight as well- Is this the same Crisp ? I have him ex F./Sgt. Crisp. J. L., -> Commissioned A/PO 1935? https://aviation-safety.net/wikibase/207377


    J. L. Crisp, to No. 18 (B) Squadron, Bircham Newton, 11.5.36.

    Acting Pilot Officer.—J. L. Crisp, to No. 49 (B) Squadron, Bircham Newton, 22.6.36.
    Last edited by paulmcmillan; 7th July 2020 at 11:35.

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    Default Re: John Lawrence Crisp

    John Lawrence Crisp
    b. Q2 1917 (MMS King) Reg Farnham 2a 227
    Enlisted 748440 in Block 740000-759999 RAFVR Pilots. Issued from 01-Jan-37 to 03-Jan-40. TNA AIR 78/39/7 I-113 R2C1
    21 Nov 1941 748440 Flt Sgt J L Crisp Cmd Plt Off(p) RAFVR GD (112540) [LG].
    d. 8 Jun 1942 as Plt Off aged 25 – fits Birth Reg above. Officer s/n given in CWGC (and elsewhere) as 37387(?) – which I can’t make come up on the LG!
    Something don’t compute! Using logic, there are either two John Lawrence Crisp, or John Lawrence Crisp had two periods of RAF service which have become mixed up at some stage?
    IWH (= it won’t help)
    Peter Davies
    Meteorology is a science; good meteorology is an art!
    We might not know - but we might know who does!

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    Default Re: John Lawrence Crisp

    Peter

    Same guy..He was Court Martial in 1937 while with 18 Sqn (I assume) - I wonder what for and dismissed - he rejoined as RAFVR and later re-commissioned which explains the service number (he took his old one) - I was hoping I would add this this reply to the thread below but it did not work...

    http://www.rafcommands.com/forum/sho...Lawrence-Crisp

    Paul
    Last edited by paulmcmillan; 7th July 2020 at 17:35.

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    Default

    Thanks Dennis. I will follow up your suggestion.

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    Default

    According to http://www.battleofbritain.net/bobhsoc/

    The J L Crisp with 43 Sqn was 112450


    CRISP, Sgt. J. L. 112450. British. 43 Squadron. Killed June 8th 1942**

    Which indicates P/O John Lawrence Crisp (37387) killed 8/6/1942 with 122 Squadron is one and the same as John Lawrence Crisp (112540)


    I wonder what Wynn in Men of Battle of Britain says on this subject?

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    Default

    'Men of the Battle of Britain' also suggests they are the same person.
    Crisp joined the RAF on a short service commission in August 1935.
    He was dismissed from the RAF on 8 June 1937 by sentance of a Court Martial.
    Crisp joined the RAFVR on 28 May 1939 as an Airman U/T Pilot (748440)
    Flew with 43 Sqn in the BoB.
    Commissioned in November 41. He was killed with 122 Sqn 8.6.42 aged 25.

    Andy

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