Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 27

Thread: B17 HB788 BU-B Sergeant N V Madgwick 1606117

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Sep 2016
    Posts
    7
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts

    Default B17 HB788 BU-B Sergeant N V Madgwick 1606117

    I have been intermittently researching the RAF career of my late partners cousin. He was Sergeant Norman Victor Madgwick RAFVR, 1606117. He joined at No 10 Initial Training Wing (Grand Hotel Scarborough??). He was an air gunner in 214 FMS Squadron and was a member of the crew of B17 HB788 BU-B who were all killed when the aircraft was shot down on 6 November 1944. The aircraft which took off from RAF Oulton was on a "Jostle" mission in support of a Lancaster/Mosquito bombing raid to the junction of the Mittelland and Ems Dortmund Canal at Gravenhorst. I have details of other crew members Who are all buried in the Reichswald cemetery. I visited and photographed the graves earlier this year.
    I believe the crash site was at or near Altenberg.
    I would be grateful for confirmation of the crash and for any information relating to how the aircraft was shot down and also anything relevant to his short career.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Stockholm
    Posts
    1,061
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 13 Times in 12 Posts

    Default

    Hello,

    There is very little on this loss in the service file of the Air Bomber, WO1 Raymond Daniel Picciano, RCAF.

    The MREU report dated 20 May 1947 confirms a crash at Altenberge and burial in the town cemetery. Annoyingly, it makes mention of crash reports which are not included in the file.

    Following exhumation, your subject, W/O Bright and P/O Harding were ID'd by their identity disks.

    If conventional wisdom follows and they all crewed up at OTU then Picciano was posted to No. 26 OTU 18 May 1943, then No. 1657 Conversion Unit 3 September 1943 and onto No. 214 Sqn 19 November 1943.

    Hopefully, board member ianh can add to this.

    Regards,

    Dave

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Sep 2016
    Posts
    7
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts

    Default

    Thank you for that swift response. My original info in 2009 from Matt Baars German site was that the crash was at Braunsweig. For interest Picciano's headstone at Reichswald shows 8th not 6th November. I have made CGWC aware of this and I understand a change is in hand.

    i have subsequently checked the Australian government site service record for WO K M Bright and his dates for OTU and OCU reflect those you give for Picciano.

    Regards

    Chas Chambers
    Last edited by Chas17120; 9th November 2016 at 06:36.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Sydney Australia
    Posts
    684
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts

    Default

    Hi Chas,
    Dr Theo Boiten's Nachtjagd War Diaries has it listed as possible loss to Oblt Josef Forster of 11./NJG3 for his 11th victory at 19.28hrs. Forster would survive the war with a total of 15 victories.

    Regards,

    John.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Shepperton
    Posts
    744
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts

    Default

    Hi Chas
    (and Hi Dave, too, hope you're well!)

    From the ORB entries I've listed and analysed the ops of all the aircrew who are recorded as having flown ops on Fortresses with 214 Sqn, and can let you know as follows.

    Unfortunately the ORB doesn't show the date when Sgt Madgwick joined the squadron, or where he came from, but his first Fortress op is recorded as being on 6/9/1944, a 'Windowing' op with F/O J R Corke in SR377, 'BU-M'.

    He then flew 12 further ops (mostly Windowing, with a couple of 'Big Ben' patrols looking out for V2 control signals) between 11/9 and 4/11/1944, all with F/O J M S Jackson, before they failed to return from the op (ie Madgwick's 14th on Fortresses) providing Jostle support for a raid on Gravenhorst on 6/11/1944. HB788 was the second 'BU-B'-coded Fortress lost by 214 Sqn.

    The ORB entries unfortunately don't give details of where most of Jackson's crew came into the squadron from either. Picciano came from 1657 HCU, while Fletcher and Kelly (the Special Operator) came from '31 Base'.

    Not a great deal but I hope this helps you a bit.

    Regards

    Ian
    Last edited by ianh; 8th November 2016 at 22:10.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Posts
    6,530
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 43 Times in 41 Posts

    Default

    Hello Ian,

    It would be most appreciated if you could tell me the numbers of ops (on 214 Sqn), flown by AUS426496 W/O (Air Gunner) Keith Mortimer BRIGHT RAAF. Any incidental information on Bright would also be helpful.

    Col.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Sep 2016
    Posts
    7
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts

    Default

    Dave, Ian and John, thank you for the information. It all helps me put the story together and, perhaps inevitably leads to further questions.
    I am currently reading Confound and Destroy, Confounding the Reich and Ron James 'Avenging in the shadows' history of 214 Sqdn. It gives an order of battle for 8 Sept 1944 which shows Sgt Madgwick in F/O Corks crew in HB767. No mention of F/O Jackson's crew that day.
    He also states that the loss of F/O Jacksons crew on 6 Nov 1944 was their 30th Op. Noting that Ianh gives it as Sgt Madgwick's 14th Fortress op can I presume he was a late addition to their crew and/or did he have earlier ops in other types.
    I also wonder if there is any information on the exact location of the crash site.
    I would be grateful if anyone can provide any further details.
    it is possible that Sgt Madgwick's log book is held by another relative and I hope it may surface!!

    Thanks for you help thus far

    Chas Chambers

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Dublin
    Posts
    4,505
    Thanks
    5
    Thanked 30 Times in 29 Posts

    Default

    Cross referencing threads on other forums to save people duplicating efforts
    http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/showth...25562&posted=1
    Dennis Burke
    - Dublin

    Foreign Aircrew and Aircraft Ireland 1939-1945
    www.ww2irishaviation.com

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Shepperton
    Posts
    744
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts

    Default

    Hi all

    Can't do so immediately, but will add whatever else I can as soon as possible.

    Ian

    ps Not certain without access to my computer, but I think I recall W/O Bright had flown a lot of ops.
    Last edited by ianh; 9th November 2016 at 14:24.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Sydney Australia
    Posts
    684
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts

    Default

    Hi Chas,

    The Aussie K M Bright crash file lists the crash location as Altenberg Germany which is near the Czech boarder. His crash file at the National Archives Australia is open but not on line, you can buy a copy of his file for about $30.00 AUSD. See attached. http://recordsearch.naa.gov.au/Searc...msListing.aspx

    Regards,

    John.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •