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Thread: Hawker Sea Fury or Fury

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    Default Hawker Sea Fury or Fury

    Gents
    There was a denavalised export version of Sea Fury, sold to Iraq and Pakistan. This would make it Fury, but what was the official name of the type? In case of denavalised Seafires, they remained Seafires.
    Thanks

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    Hello

    The name Bagdad Fury (not sure of the British spelling, there's an h somewhere I think...) has often been mentioned, especially in the warbirds world. The Old Flying Machine Company at Duxford used to fly one in the 1990s-2000s, with an Iraki desert camo.

    Joss

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    As with many such questions, it all depends who were the official who decide on such things; if it is a military aircraft for a foreign (sovereign) nation, then it is probably a case of the manufacturer and the customer deciding what is right. If it is a British Commonwealth government involved, then (in the "old days") the Air Ministry, or later the Ministry of Supply might well also be involved. There were some cases where seemingly odd decisions were made where, for instance, some Oxfords (but incorporating many Consul features) were supplied to the Burmese government as Oxfords, although this was presumably because they were required by the military, and Oxford was the military name for the type. One other I do know more about (having read a version of this story in official files) was the name decided on by the NZ Govt for the DH 104 derivatives supplied to the RNZAF in the late 1940s/early 50s. Although the first two supplied (in 1948 and 49) were definitely civilian Doves, all later aircraft were built to RNZAF specifications (not Air Ministry) and the RNZAF wanted to call them Devons (the Air Ministry name for all military models). DH's in the UK were not very happy about this, as they maintained that only aircraft built to AM specifications could be designated as Devons, but the RNZAF insisted so reluctantly DH's had to agree, so Devons they became. A little later the two original Doves were also redesignated as Devons by the RNZAF. However this never resulted in any great confusion because all officials on both sides knew the score, and reasons for same. However as the NZ aircraft were built basically to a modified DH civilian specification (with some improvements incorporated based on Air Ministry experience), when came the time to dispose of these same aircraft on the civilian market, they were frequently designated (for various good reasons) as Doves, although their individual specifications did not exactly match any particular recognised Dove mark number. However throughout history, practically all ex-military aircraft on transfer to the civil register meet similar problems, pragmatic decisions have to be made, and new standards or specifications are decided upon. One has only to look at such aircraft as the Tiger Moth, Harvard, Chipmunk, and particularly the American Dakota, Skymaster and twin Beech (Beech 18) aircraft to see how these specifications were decided upon, and the type duly settles into a purely civilian environment, with all questions of structural strength, and approved modifications, being left to the original manufacturer (or their successors).
    On a final note, I have always assumed that the Hawker Fury version delivered to Iraq were named Baghdad Fury more-or-less unofficially, as presumably they were built to that government's own specification (with particular regard to radio fit, instruments, and armament options), and it was as good a name as any. I however doubt that it was not known to the Iraqi air force by that name - probably just as the Fury (unless you had to get very specific).
    David D

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    Thanks. Well, quite, it was a factory designation of the model that was most important in regard of specification of an aircraft. I am aware of differences between manufacturer, operator and even pilots in regard of naming aircraft. I think that in this case the name used by the manufacturer in official paperwork is most important. I think Baghdad Fury was an internal name used to differentiate the denavalised variant from other aircraft.

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    Hello Franek,
    I think these two files at The National Archives give a clue in the titles:

    DR 1/481 Description: Hawker Aircraft Ltd: F2/43 Fury Mk 1 NX 798 Bristol Centaurus XVIII

    ...and ...

    AVIA 18/1113 Description: Fury Mk I aircraft: performance and handling trials

    Hope this helps.

    Regards,
    Bruce
    http://www.filephotoservice.co.uk/
    RESEARCH AT THE NATIONAL ARCHIVES & OTHER UK INSTITUTIONS

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    Bruce
    I am afraid it does not help. Hawker Fury (Tempest III) was considered for the RAF, but in the eve of jet age, it was abandoned in favour of other types. Therefore a naval variant for FAA was developed and named Sea Fury. The aircraft I am asking for were 'reverse-engineered' from Sea Fury for land based operations. Hence the question, if they were still called Sea Fury officially.

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    Were these aircraft sold from FAA inventory or were they built for FAA but diverted before delivery?
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    New built aircraft according to Iraq and Pakistan specification.

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    I had a quick look and the aircraft are called 'Sea Furies' in the descriptions of all Foreign Office, Admiralty, Ministry of Defence and Ministry of Supply files at Kew. These files all relate to the supply of aircraft to Iraq and I did not find any hits for Pakistan.

    Bruce
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    Thanks. They were known as Sea Furies in Pakistan, even if only few were any close to the sea. I am just curious of the official name. A common name might not be a correct one.

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