Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 26

Thread: 101 Sqdn: Nuremberg Raid 30/31 March 1944

  1. #1
    LizT Guest

    Default 101 Sqdn: Nuremberg Raid 30/31 March 1944

    I have recently begun searching for information about my mum's uncle - Allan Henry Ross - who was lost on the Nuremberg raid on the night of 30/31 March 1944, at the age of 22. I have managed to find out quite a bit about Allan and the crew he was with. The oldest member of the crew was 23 - however the age of one was not known - Sgt Graham Harries Williams 173444 (CWGC).

    I've been given a great deal of assistance regarding the background of the type of plane and what Allan's job would have been like (bomb aimer/front gunner), from someone on another web site. Here's what I know so far:-

    Allan flew in DV276, SR-R, which was one of 7 Lancasters lost on the night of 30/31 March 1944, from 101 Squadron, Ludford Magna. From the CWGC web site I have the names and service numbers of the rest of his crew, none of whom survived being shot down on their bombing run at about 01:30. He appears to have been in an 8-man crew which would suggest that the plane was one of the ABC Lancasters. When they were shot down, Allan was on his fifth flight, and I think he must only have joined 101 Squadron in about Feb 1944.

    His service number was 1344679 and he joined up (RAFVR) in Edinburgh in February 1942 (I found this from a web site which gave sign up locations for runs of service numbers, but foolishly forgot to bookmark it, so now I can't find it again!). From looking at the service numbers of the rest of his crew, I think it might be possible that 1341705 Robert Russell Roberts joined up at the samen time and they may have been friends. Allan was an only child and is related to me through his half-brother, who was my grandfather.

    Can anyone tell me where I can find out about Allan's previous missions? I'd also be interested in advice about how to find out where he trained - I think it may have been in Canada. How can I find out if any service medals etc might have been sent to his mother, who survived him? Would is be possible to find out details of who shot him down?

    Thanks for taking time to read this.

    If anyone has any ideas, I'd be happy to hear from you.

    Liz

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Dorset
    Posts
    307
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts

    Default

    Hello Liz,
    First of all, you can find block lists of service numbers and recruiting centres/dates on this very forum, see here: http://www.rafcommands.com/forum/showthread.php?t=27

    To find out the sorties that an individual went on, you need to look at the squadron's Operations Records Book (ORB), there is some discussion on this forum about these documents right now and how much they vary in content. Copies will be held at the National Archives in Kew but I don't think they're available in digitised form on the internet for 101 squadron. You may be lucky and find someone on the board who has copies, otherwise it's a long search and/or visit to Kew.
    Regards
    Max

    PS I presume you've seen this: "At the intended target, PO Batten-Smith's crew in Lancaster SR-R bombed at about 0128 but were then caught by a nightfighter. Their aircraft crashed in flames beside a big Autobahn junction 6 miles east of Nuremberg, killing all the crew." from here: http://homepage.ntlworld.com/billchurchley/Nuremberg.html
    Last edited by Galgos; 7th July 2008 at 20:41.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Kelowna British Columbia, Canada
    Posts
    61
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts

    Default

    Hello Liz

    My name is Leslie (Trotter) Zwingli. This forum has been amazing in providing me with assistance as I write my father's wartime memoirs which are now almost complete. My father was a Lancaster pilot with 101 Squadron until he was transferred to 156 and then 582 Squadron as a Pathfinder pilot. I went to the trouble last year to obtain the Squadron Orbs from the KEW in London and if you give me some time I can probably provide you with details of the former missions you are looking for.

    It is a little pricey to obtain the orbs so if I am able to assist members of the various forums, I am more than happy to do so. I am leaving town at the end of this week for a short trip, but if you bear with me, I will see what I can dig up. It will take a bit of time as I said as all the crews are listed by the pilot first.

    Kind regards

    Leslie

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Kelowna British Columbia, Canada
    Posts
    61
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts

    Default

    Hello again Liz
    I have reviewed the 101 ORBs, knowing what it is like waiting for information and found the following: It would appear your relative flew at least 9 missions with 101 and was shot down on the 10th.
    Details of the missions are as follows:
    Dec.2/43 Target Berlin Crew: Sgt. J. Batten-Smith, Sgt. R. Armstrong, Sgt. G.H. Williams, Sgt. R.R. Roberts, Sgt. A.H. Ross, Sgt. H.F. McGlenaghan, Sgt. A. Haynes, Sgt. N.V. Haverland. Primary attacked at 2023 hrs. from 20,000' Hdg.090 at IAS 160. Bombed on Green TI Attack fairly scattered with some concentration of fire.

    Dec.3/43 Target Leipzig. Take off 00:15 Return 07:45 Same crew
    Primary attacked at 04:09 hrs. from 20.000' heading 182M and IAS 170. Bombed on PFF flares large glow free fires seen through cloud and after leaving target was seen 100 miles away.

    Dec.16/43 Target Berlin Sgt. T.L. Lander replacing Haverland
    Take off 16:20 Return 00:50
    Bombed flares red with green stars from 20,000 at 20:09 hrs. on 100M at 165 IAS. Red glow reflecting on cloud. PFF fairly well concentrated.

    Dec. 23/43 Target Berlin Take off 00:20 Return 07:50 Back to regular crew
    Bombed red with green stars from 21,500' at 04:12 hrs. heading 015M IAS 165

    Jan 27/44 Target Berlin Take off 17:25 Return 01:37
    Bombed Wanganni flares from 20,000' at 2037 hrs. 085(m) IAS 165
    Marking well concentrated Three larges fires taking good hold in target area

    Jan 29/44 Target Berlin Take off 00:20 Return 08:30
    Bombed Wanganni flares from 20400' at 0320hrs 160m IAS160 Huge explosion seen at 0324 hrs lasting for one minute. Large area completely covered by fires.

    Jan 30/44 Target Berlin Take off 17:15 Return 23:55
    Bombed Wanganni flares from 20500' at 20:28hrs. 155M IAS 170 Marking good. Glow of fire on cloud. Large explosions at 20:25 in target area

    March 15/44 Target Stuttgart Take off 19:00 Return 03:10
    W/O D.A. Windle in for Haverland
    Bombed TIRed at 23:20 hours from 21000' heading 010 170 mph. Markings very scattered. Large fires going


    March 22/44 Target Frankfurt Takeoff 18:50 Return 01:15 W/O Windle in for Haverland
    Bombed centre of 6 red flares with yellow stars at 22:03 hrs from 21000' heading 190 170mph. PFF good Fires visible 200 miles from target

    March 30/44 Target Nurnburg Take off 22:05 P/O H.E. Beor or Boor as 2nd pilot. Again no Haverland
    Missing - nothing heard since take off.

    I cannot explain the lack of operations during the month of February at total of 6 weeks on stand down. Perhaps some of the other members of the forum might be able to offer some explanation. Also I have not been able to determine what happened to Sgt. Haverland, but will do some more reviewing of the monthly summaries to see if anything is recorded.

    My father was also on those December missions with 101 Squadron and was on the infamous Nurnburg raid as a Pathfinder. He is still alive today and some of the stories he has told me are harrowing.

    Hope this is of some help to you.

    Kind regards

    Leslie

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Dorset
    Posts
    307
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts

    Default Nightfighters

    Liz,
    A quick look during my lunch-break at the evidence available so far and comparing it with the Luftwaffe claims (source Tony Wood) for that night, one of the following is the most likely candidate for the destruction of DV276, though I think it will be virtually impossible to be more specific:

    date - pilot - unit - a/c - location - altitude - time

    31.03.44 Uffz. Kintzner 5./NJG 3 4-mot. Flzg. S. Nürnberg: 6.000 m. 01.33

    31.03.44 Uffz. Trammacher 7./NJG 2 Lancaster Raum Wüzburg-Nürnberg: 6.000 m. 01.41

    Regards
    Max

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Shepperton
    Posts
    749
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts

    Default 101 Sqn / Nuremberg Raid

    Hi Liz

    Presumably you've read Martin Middlebrook's excellent book on the Nuremberg Raid? Well worth it.

    Ian

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Stockholm
    Posts
    1,076
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 15 Times in 14 Posts

    Default 101 Sqn Nuremberg

    Liz,

    From page 126 of "Carried on the Wind - Wartime Experiences of a Special Duties Operator with 101 Squadron RAF Bomber Command" by Sean Feast:

    "While Davidson was struggling, another 101 Squadron pilot was about to die. Unknown to the ever-popular and experienced Pilot Officer John Batten-Smith, DFC on his 22nd mission, Helmut Schulte, an Oberleutnant with II/NJG5, was about to end his life, and that of his crew whose average age was only 21. A long burst of cannon and machine-gun fire despatched the Lancaster in seconds, spinning out of control and crashing by the side of the Autobahn almost equidistant from Nuremberg and Lauf"

    Dave

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Dorset
    Posts
    307
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts

    Default

    Hi Dave,
    I'd be interested to know Sean Feast's sources for attributing the loss of DV276 to Helmut Schulte. He scored 4 victories that night though I'm not sure that any were in the immediate Nurnberg area.
    Regards
    Max

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Stockholm
    Posts
    1,076
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 15 Times in 14 Posts

    Default

    Max,

    I will scan and email you Sean's list of sources from the book. A tad too long to type out in here.

    Cheers,

    Dave

  10. #10
    LizT Guest

    Default 101 Sqdn 30/31 March 1944

    Quote Originally Posted by Galgos View Post
    Hello Liz,

    PS I presume you've seen this: "At the intended target, PO Batten-Smith's crew in Lancaster SR-R bombed at about 0128 but were then caught by a nightfighter. Their aircraft crashed in flames beside a big Autobahn junction 6 miles east of Nuremberg, killing all the crew." from here: http://homepage.ntlworld.com/billchurchley/Nuremberg.html
    Max

    Thanks a lot for replying - yes I'd found this reference and Bill has emailed me a couple of times since I posted here.

    Liz

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •