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Thread: Air Navigator's Certificate Second Class

  1. #1
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    Default Air Navigator's Certificate Second Class

    Hi all,

    I would like to ask for an advice. I have a navigator who has finished full RAF Air Observer training in spring 1942.
    After an operational tour he become a Station Operational Officer.
    In late 1944 he got Air Navigator's Certificate Second Class.

    Anybody can explain me what does it means? It is some kind of qualification increase or what?

    TIA

    Pavel
    Czechoslovak Airmen in the RAF 1940-1945
    http://cz-raf.webnode.cz

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    Pavel, Hi,
    Until somebody comes along with the precise definition then your 2nd Class Air Navs Cert was, basically, a civilian qualification. Late 44 looked as if the Allies were going to win WW2. After the war there would be lots of surplus navigators. Those with a civilian certificate stood a better chance of being employed as a nav by any post-war airlines that might be formed. It might be from GAPAN (Guild of Air Pilots and Navigators) - but the experts will know! This is just a "filler in" until the expert appears!
    Rgds
    Peter Davies
    Meteorology is a science; good meteorology is an art!
    We might not know - but we might know who does!

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    I am certainly no expert on Nav quals and it could be a 'civvy' qualification - depending on the exact qualification name/reference/description.
    In WW2 the RAF certainly did have this qualification,it might be worth a look in the C G Jefford book Observers and Navigators - the online preview has some pages missing but it does have this on P388 along with some details of Nav qualifications on the next page - including references to gaining civil Nav Qualifications.


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    Hi chaps,

    thank you for both replies, interesting extract indeed.
    I am not able to reproduce it here at the moment, but the certificate is very similar to the second from the top at http://sas.raf38group.org/forum/view...hp?f=11&t=2572.
    The main difference which addle my head is that it is not signed by CO of some navigational school but Navigational Officer of HQ Coastal Command...

    Any additional ideas?

    TIA

    Pavel
    Czechoslovak Airmen in the RAF 1940-1945
    http://cz-raf.webnode.cz

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    Pavel,
    You mention that your man, having completed an operational tour, became a Station Operational Officer. I would hazard a guess that this should read "Station Operations Officer", which was a post (appointment) on most "flying" stations. I have never heard of a Station Operational Officer.
    David D

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    Quote Originally Posted by CZ_RAF View Post
    I am not able to reproduce it here at the moment, but the certificate is very similar to the second from the top at http://sas.raf38group.org/forum/view...hp?f=11&t=2572.
    The main difference which addle my head is that it is not signed by CO of some navigational school but Navigational Officer of HQ Coastal Command...

    Any additional ideas?

    TIA

    Pavel
    What is the background to your man Pavel ?
    Which type of squadron did he do his operational tour on - ie bomber/coastal/fighter.
    Also at the bottom right of the certificate - which line was scored through - Air Navigation or General Reconnaissance ?
    If he had attended a General Reconnaissance course then that might explain the Coastal Command qualification signature.

    rgds baz

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    Hi all, thank you for your comments.

    @David - thank you for correction, it is just my incorrect translation.
    @ Baz - he was with 311 Sq during service with the CC
    There is nothing at the bottom right of the certificate from the options as on the certificate online - there is only HQCC.

    The certificate is date 10 Oct 1944 but there is no posting to any course in the period before this date.
    The only connection may have a short attachment to the HQCC between 2 and 25 Sept 1944...

    Additional question - I understand correctly that there was a plenty of Navigators who has passed official RAF navigational training but only some of them got such a certificate after some additional course?

    TIA

    Pavel
    Czechoslovak Airmen in the RAF 1940-1945
    http://cz-raf.webnode.cz

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    Pavel, I have the records of a chap who qualified as a 2nd Class Navigator by completing a course at 3 General Reconnaissance (GR) School at Squires Gate in 1944. He was a pilot posted to Coastal Command who was required to complete the GR course before he went to a Coastal Command OTU. Regards, Terry

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    Yes I did wonder if the trainee observer/navs could graduate from training and not be awarded the 2nd class 'ticket' - perhaps if they just scraped through with pass marks below the 70% average (but over 60% average ?) and then with further experience and perhaps a short training course - they might qualify for the 2nd class ticket.
    Of course as Res posted - he could have also been preparing for an expected end to the war and 'civvy street'.

    I suppose the obvious question is -what did your man do after he was awarded his Nav ticket ?

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    My man stayed in his original post as "Station Operations Officer" till the end of WWII and then he has returned to liberated to Czechoslovakia.

    Pavel
    Czechoslovak Airmen in the RAF 1940-1945
    http://cz-raf.webnode.cz

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