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Thread: RAF "Internal" and "External" Casualty Lists WW2

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    Default RAF "Internal" and "External" Casualty Lists WW2

    Just found out that it appears the RAF issued an "Internal" Casualty list and an External One (i.e. the public Casualty Communique"

    I found reference to an officer who was injured and mentioned in "Casualty List no 173" the incident happened April 11 1940. A crewman in the same incident died and his name was on the
    May 5 1940 Air Ministry Casualty Communique No. 28

    But the officer is not on this list (nor can I find him on any other) as he had a "minor" injury (broken leg) it may have been decided to "filter" him of the public list. I can see why this may be politically appealing

    It would be interesting to see if these Internal Lists survive in any file, they were certainly around until early 1960's!

    Paul

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    All

    I have been asked for more detail on this

    Blenheim L9181 of 57 Sqn crashed at Foucacourt-en-Santerre in France on April 11th 1940 at 04:30 Hours

    Crew consisting of

    F/O Archibald Cathcart Stewart #40151 Pilot
    Sgt Colyn Angus Simpson #561359 Observer
    AC1 George Lindsay #625870 Wireless Operator/ Air Gunner

    Of this Lindsay was killed directly in the incident and is on May 5 1940 Air Ministry Casualty Communique No. 28 as KoAS

    Simpson bailed out OK and was uninjured (Form 551)

    Stewart bailed out, but hit tail plane and broke his leg no Form 551 at the time was issued, but he was re-admitted to hospital in August 1940 (Form 551 raised) with a re-occurrence of a problem from the incident. In fact because one leg was weak he was not considered able to fly twin engine planes and went on to fly single seater fighters. I cannot find him listed in any Air Ministry Casualty Communique for the period of his incident April 1940

    However in 1961 it was noticed that no 551 for the original incident existed in his file so one was requested. The letter says Officer recorded in "Casualty List no 173"

    Paul

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    Thanks Paul, Archibald Cathcart Stewart retired as an Air Commodore, he was the last CO of 167 Squadron, and the first when it transitioned in to 322 (Dutch) Squadron. I have a copy of his flying log book as I was contacted by his son Iain a few years back as he had seen my requests for information on him as he became one of the less well known Wing Leaders of 125 Airfield/125 Wing between Robert Yule and Geoffrey Page (he was in post between March and July 1944), leading them in to Normandy. He married his nurse after his crash as aside!

    Allsn
    Allan Hillman

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    Allan

    Very interesting does his log book detail the incident if can I have a copy or a report of what it says

    Kind regards

    Paul

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    Paul

    Casualty Communique 173 refers to an AD Stewart who was KOAS (so I think the Form 551 might be incorrect). Obviously this does not answer your original question about the availability of the original communiques but thought I would highlight that point

    Regards

    Pete
    Main areas of research:

    - CA Butler and the loss of Lancaster ME334 (http://rafww2butler.wordpress.com/ )
    - Aircrew Training (Basic / Trade / Operational / Continuation / Conversion)
    - The History of No. 35 Squadron (1916 - 1982) (https://35squadron.wordpress.com/)

    [Always looking for copies of original documents / photographs etc relating to these subjects]

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    Pete

    Obviously not the same man as ACS had a long postwar career until retirement.

    Paul

    My copy is not where I thought it was, so a longer search is required, will try some other places tomorrow.

    Allan
    Allan Hillman

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    Pete


    Thanks obviously someone made a mistake in the wrong Stewart on 1961 well that mystery solved!

    Allan thanks from looking

    Paul

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    Paul

    Still looking I'm afraid, it is not forgotten - however, my research on 125 Airfield/125 Wing stretches back over 50 years, so things are not always where I expect them to be! Will be back with you a.s.a.p.

    Allan
    Allan Hillman

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    Default Archibald Cathcart Stewart 40151

    Hello Paul

    After opening various boxes and files I have finally found his logbook. Unfortunately I think his original must have been lost in France. It probably didn't accompany him to hospital and on that basis most probably lost when records were most likely abandoned in France - Jeffords shows 57 Squadron for a long period from October 1939 at Rosieres-en-Santere, with detachments at Rennes and Metz, then after the German attack, Poix on 18 May, Crecy on 19 May 1940, then Wyton on 22 May - and his new logbook simply opens with the the following entry:

    Firstly it lists his hours on singles and multi's - and then, against his signature "Certified. Approx. total hours on evacuation from France June 1940" showing a grand total of 1107.20, not surprisingly on arrival at 4 A.O.N.S on 17 June 1941 he is marked as "Above average" as a G.R. pilot.

    Out of action for about a year it then commences with his continuing flying career, from April 1941, with his first "Self" entry as pilot being 26 April 1941 right up until the final entry on 26 October 1959 with a Pembroke flight from Seletar - Butterworth - Ipoh - where he was SASO HQ 224 Group as an Air Commodore, flying helicopters and multi's, marked as pilot "Self" so his legs had obviously improved!

    He is one of the many unknowns who made a vital contribution to Victory in 1945.

    I have basic notes on his career, the following was given to me by his youngest son, Iain:

    Confirmed as a Pilot Officer on 12 July 1938 he was promoted to become a Flying Officer (War Substantive) on 12 April 1940. He crashed the previous night flying Blenheim IV L9181 DX- on a night reconnaissance, or training, flight when control was lost in a turn soon after take off. The aircraft crashed at Foucacourt-en-Santerre, north of Lihons, 20km NNW of Roye-Amy, France. Stewart baled out but broke his left leg badly, (his leg was so badly damaged that his foot was on his body, and that he had many bone breakages) and his left side when he hit the tailplane, Sgt C Simpson (Observer) baled out safely. The Air Gunner AC1 G Lindsay was killed and is buried at le Quesnel (Somme), France. He lay in a field for a long time with many broken bones before being picked up and taken to a hospital in Dieppe, up to the time of the Dunkirk evacuation, when he was then evacuated (Obviously as he was a potentially valuable pilot) from Dieppe as the Germans advanced.

    Allan
    Last edited by allan125; 15th September 2017 at 14:09. Reason: fiddling !!
    Allan Hillman

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    Allan

    Thanks for finally finding this document and also posting the above information on it.. Yes it looks like he lost his log book but it adds to my record for him anyway

    He is in my bail-out list which ends April 30th 1940


    Paul

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