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Thread: Y0045 - Boston III - (AL78? ) - 24 Sqdn SAAF - (OZ) - H - 30-08-1942

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    Default Y0045 - Boston III - (AL78? ) - 24 Sqdn SAAF - (OZ) - H - 30-08-1942

    Hello,

    Y0045 - Boston III - (AL78? ) - 24 Sqdn SAAF - (OZ) - H - 30-08-1942
    LG.99 - El Brahman/ Egypt.
    Captain (P) FURSTENBURG, Jan P - 103327V - SAAF - Alamein Memorial - Column 266.
    Lt(Obs) CAMERON, Ronald - 94471V - SAAF - Alamein Memorial - Column 267.
    F/Sgt(WAG) MATHIEU, Pierre L - 205909V - SAAF - Alamein Memorial - Column 268.
    Air Sgt(A/G) ENGLAND, Victor E. Melvin - 206227V - SAAF - Alamein Memorial - Column 268.

    Possible aircraft
    AL780 - 12/21 Sqdn's SAAF - Undershot landing during night flying training and crash-landed 2 miles SE of LG99 - 08-05-1942.
    AL781 - 12 Sqdn SAAF - SOC 31-08-1944.
    AL782 - 24/12 Sqdn's SAAF - Foggia 1, 18-11-1943.
    AL783 - 12 Sqdn SAAF - Crashed in night take-off. Later hit by AL720 Bir el Baheira, DBF - 04-06-1942.
    AL784 - Diverted to Russia.
    AL785 - 24 Sqdn - Engine caught fire, crashed 27-09-1942. [ AA100-AZ999 has " Lost 01-10-1942 NFD " ].
    AL786 - 24/12 Sqdn's - SOC 30-04-1944.
    AL787 - ? Sqdn - Landing accident Lagos 04-03-1942 Ferry Flight - NFT.
    AL788 - Diverted to Russia.
    AL789 - Diverted to Russia.

    In regard to those diverted to Russia. Did they have any previous RAF/SAAF service or were they delivered straight from the Middle East to Russia ?

    With regard to 24 Sqdn's "OZ" code, it seems to have been used on other a/c in the squadron around the date in question so could have been carried by a/c "H" also.

    Alex
    Last edited by Alex Smart; 20th October 2017 at 17:53.

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    Hi Alex,
    this is something I compiled earlier from various sources.

    12 SAAF Sqn.
    AL780 12 SAAF Sqn. Lost 9.5.42.
    AL781 12 SAAF Sqn
    AL782/P 12 SAAF Sqn, 3 SAAF Wing. Cuttichi, Sicily IX.43. Crashed 18.11.43.
    AL783 12 SAAF Sqn, 3 SAAF Wing. North Africa. Crashed on night take-off 4.6.42.
    AL786/Y 12 SAAF Sqn, 3 SAAF Wing. Italy. Coded J, Tortorella XI-XII.43. Attacked Split harbour (today Croatia) 1.11.43.
    AL788 12 SAAF Sqn. North Africa, VIII.42.
    12 Sqn's Bostons were briefly coded VL.

    24 SAAF Sqn.
    AL780 24 SAAF Sqn. North Africa. Lost with 12 Sqn 9.5.42.
    AL782 24 SAAF Sqn
    AL785 24 SAAF Sqn. Lost 27.9.42.
    AL786 24 SAAF Sqn
    AL791 24 SAAF Sqn
    24 Sqn's Bostons were briefly coded OZ (not ZO or O7), for example Z2288 OZ-C. Later OZ code was overpainted, small letters CC on nose. Shot down by ground fire on 27.9.42.
    Hope it helps,
    Zoran.

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    Hello Zoran,
    My post above is now edited ,thanks for the correction.
    With regard to AL788, service with 12 Sqn SAAF. Do you have anything about the date of transfers out of the Squadron ?
    AB only gives "Diverted to Russia".
    While "85years" does not have it , which suggests that it did not serve with the SAAF ?
    I also looked at AL791 but the loss date is given as 28-09-1942.
    We would be looking for a/c serial AL78? That may or may not have been with 12 or 24 Sqn after 30-08-1942.
    Perhaps the ORB may give something ?

    Alex

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    Hi Alex,
    I somehow missed your reply.
    ORB would not help much, because 12 and 24 sqn's ORBs for 30 August 1942 are almost unreadable (and often not sorted chronologically).
    But I found some crew lists for Boston 'H':
    2.7.42: Lt. Furstenburg, Lt. Dodd, Sgt. Mathieu, Sgt. England;
    17.7.42: Lt. Daniels, Lt. Forsyth, Sgt. Mooney, Sgt. Davies;
    22.7.42 (12 45 raid): Lt. Daniels, Lt. Forsyth, Sgt. Mooney, Sgt. Davies;
    22.7.42 (17 10 raid): Lt. Hammond, Lt. Coutts, Sgt. Waters, Sgt. Walls;
    23.7.42: Lt. Daniels, Lt. Forsyth, Sgt. Mooney, Sgt. Davies.

    The crew Lt. Furstenburg, Lt. Cameron, Sgt. Mathieu, Sgt. England flew on Boston 'O' 16.8.42 and 'E' 17.8.42.

    Description of 24 Sqn's 30 August raid is between crew list for 1 August raid and 14 August Sortie Report. You may check AIR_54_70_2 (pages 147-149 for this raid, 03 45-06 40 hrs, with crew lists and aircraft letters, but no serials for 24 Sqn in ORB).
    12 Sqn lists aircraft letters and last digits of serial number (last three digits for AL series, four for Z series, and USAAF numbers for the rest).
    3 SAAF Wing pages are readable (at least), but I found no mention of serials.
    Maybe I'll found something later
    Zoran

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    Thanks Zoran for this additional info, it all helps to hopefully complete the puzzle.
    Alex

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    Appendix "BA"
    FROM: Advance 3 Wing.
    TO: Usual Addressees.
    DATE: 30.8.42
    REF.: AW.244
    Most Secret Opsum 174 period 08.00 30/8.
    12 Bostons 24 Squadron took off 03.55 to 04.47
    to attack M.T. and camps on road FUKA-EL RAHMAN
    between 04.40 and 05.45 hours. 36 x 260 with rods
    and 72 x 40 dropped from 2,500 to 6,000 feet and
    4,950 rounds fired from 30 to 500 feet, tracer seen
    to enter trucks one large fire started, 7 search-
    light light and heavy A.A. and L.M.G.. Quatara
    area suspected night fighter in target area. 1
    Boston overdue. 5/10 to 6/10 cloud, base 3,000 feet.
    Visibility moderate.
    IMMEDIATE 9.30

    "1 Boston overdue." is the only mention of the loss.

    With regard to AL788: AL788 is listed on a 23/9/42 and 27/9/42 raid lists as A/C NO. Q 788 (meaning that AL788 was coded Q), with pilot Lt. Goldsworthy both times, and 29/9/42 with pilot Lt. Holt.

    Of course, one must be extremely careful in filling serials, as 12 and 24 Sqn SAAF flew Bostons with USAAF serials or RAF serials in W____, Z____, AL___, HK___, and (at least one) in BZ___ ranges.
    Zoran

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    Hello,
    Thanks for the extra info.
    Have you anything on AL784 and AL789 ?
    Alex

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