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Thread: NON-retention of Rank on de-Commissioning

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    Default NON-retention of Rank on de-Commissioning

    Dear All,

    Whilst cross-checking (LG/AFL) my Commissioned (RAFVR (Met Branch)) bodies I came across the phrase, in the LG, “no retention of rank”. This seemed to be a bit unusual. So I put “no retention” in the LG search engine (twixt, I think, 1939-1960). It came up with nearly 100 hits. I haven’t checked all of them but all the ones I did check were all RAF, and the vast majority I looked at were Padres who were Relinquishing or Resigning their Commissions. I had to assume that the Commissioning of RAF Padres was done under a specific set of regulations and, therefore, their de-Commissioning likewise?

    However, one of my Met Men was Commissioned Sqn Ldr in the RAFVR(Met Branch) on 1 Apr 43 (along with hundreds of other Met Office staff). He Resigned his Commission (still as a Sqn Ldr) in 1956. The LG records this with the annotation “No retention of Rank”. Now all the other RAFVR(Met Branch) de-Commissionings I’ve looked at so far say “retaining the rank of . . “ depending on whether the person was going out at the Substantive Rank, or Acting up one (or two!) Ranks.

    Does anyone know under what set of circumstances the “no retention” annotation would be made? I will not reveal his name. He was not a Met Padre!!!! He is very probably dead – but I’m fairly certain he married, and I know there was at least one child.

    Not a big problem, but just one of those intrigueing little things that one comes across in the high-ways and bye-ways of the LG ! Anybody know?

    TIA
    Peter Davies
    Meteorology is a science; good meteorology is an art!
    We might not know - but we might know who does!

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    Hi Peter
    Any possibility that your man left the RAF without any further Reserve commitment, where the others remained liable to further callup? He may have had permission to use the style of his final rank as a courtesy but without retaining the authority but not the same as retaining the rank.
    Regards
    Dick

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    Dick, Hi,
    VMT yrs. The problem we have here is that we do not know what - if any - Reserve Commitment there was.
    You should be aware that within a few years of the end of WW2 the uniformed Met staff at the RAF occupied airfields in Germany were gradually replaced by UK based civilian Met Office staff on an overseas posting. All the Forecasters and Assistants who went were issued with RAF F2185(I think?) the Civ ID card. That, their Passports, and any other documentation they needed served to identify them (and their dependents).
    However, there was a system of Dormant Commissions/Enlistments. Hanging up in the Stores of the RAF Station they were posted to was was a uniform (and set of kit) + a RAF F1250. The theory was that when Ivan's tanks came rumbling across the N German plain the Met staff would go into Stores as civilians by one door and come out by another one as uniformed Officers/NCOs (as appropriate) - Geneva Convention and all that jazz. All that kit was there for the duration of their Germany overseas tour. When they were Tourex the kit was replaced for whoever took their place.
    PSA, NAAFI, Civvy Scribblies, Teachers, etc, may have had the same sort of system - but I know not. But I do know that my man was in Germany (a child was born in an RAF Hospital - and announced in The Times!).
    I remain intrigued about the what/where/when/how of this whole thing. Comes, I suppose, of poking sharp sticks into very dark, and hidden, cages!
    Tks yr help. We'll see what the KR/QR experts come up with! That is always assuming they don't find it all TFD!!
    Rgds
    Peter Davies
    Last edited by Resmoroh; 1st March 2013 at 14:32. Reason: Spelling
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    Hi Peter

    I haven't got an answer but I have come acrossa number of officers who I have found listed in th AFL as A/Cdre or higher but when they've retired they also did not retain the relevant rank.

    At least one was an air attache and I suspect he was given the rank of A/Cdre for appearances (possibly honorary) but in the Retired List he was just a Gp Capt.

    Malcolm

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    Malcolm, Tks yrs.
    As far as I am concerned, I think we are moving into uncharted waters. That is not to question the KR/QR/MAFL legality - just to wonder slightly at the way/how some of it was implemented (and for what reason(s)). These latter are usually the most interesting if only they can be unearthed!!!
    I am not trying to cast hindsight nasturtiums - but just to understand why certain things happened!
    Keeps us off the streets (and out of the garden!!!)
    Rgds
    Peter Davies
    Meteorology is a science; good meteorology is an art!
    We might not know - but we might know who does!

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    As always you need a good barrack room lawyer.

    The clause in KR&ACI for the Royal Air Force 1943 are:

    3644 Rank on Retirement
    1 A permanent officer, or temporary officer retained under special conditions to complete time for retired pay, on retirement from the RAF, with retired pay or gratuity, will be placed on the retired list in the substantive rank held by him at the time of retirement.

    2 Subject to clause 3 an officer (regular or non regular) who served during the Great War, or the war commencing 3rd September 1939, may be permitted to retain on leaving the service any rank for which he is eligible under the regulations in force during those wars.

    3 Retention of rank will be dependent upon the officer's services having been satifactory throughout his career, and the Air Council reserve the right to withold this privilege at their discretion.

    ...

    3645 Acting Air Rank
    An officer who has held a posting with the local or acting rank of air commodore or air vice-marshal, for three years, or who is retired for age while holding such a posting, may, at the discretion of the Air Council, be granted, on retirement, the honorary rank of air commodore or air vice-marshal respectively.

    ...

    3647 Resignation
    An officer who resigns his commission will not retain any air force rank, except by permission of the Air Council under directions which H.M. the King may be pleased to give. It will be competent for the Air Council to give or withold this privilege.

    3648 Withdrawal of Permission
    It will be competent for the Air Council, at their descretion, to cancel any permission which may have been given to an officer to retain rank should any misconduct on his part subsequent to leaving the service be brought to their notice.


    So.. all up to the Air Council... normally if you do the time and put up no blacks you can have the rank but resign or do anything to draw attention to "conduct un-becoming" then bye bye retired rank.
    Regards
    Ross
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    Ross, tks,
    Been a Barrack-Room Lawyer - got scars to prove it!!! You shine light where I only poked sharp sticks! T'is beginning to make sense. My man (when in Germany) would have served, and been paid by the Met Office, as a Civilian. The fact that he had a Sqn Ldr's Commission in the background would have been - strictly speaking - irrelevant (except if the Cold War became Hot!!). A very large number of these WW2 Commissionings (in RAFVR(Met Branch)) retained their Commissions for a long time (some up to the 60's!). They were Civilian Forecasters. Some of 'em put their uniforms on for 14 days each year in UK and went and did the same job (in uniform) at a nearby RAF Station - often as a Leave Relief.
    The key words in yr post are "at the discretion"!! They occur several times! I suspect that my man have become involved with some sort of "difficulties" vis-a-vis the RAF authorities. I do not need to know what these might have been (but I would give your right-arm/back-teeth to know the detail - being a nosey bugger!!!).
    Tks yr help
    Peter Davies
    Meteorology is a science; good meteorology is an art!
    We might not know - but we might know who does!

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