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Thread: Spitfire IX BS294 and BS137. Error on 133 “Eagle” Sqn ORB for 26 Sept. 1942 ?

  1. #1
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    Default Spitfire IX BS294 and BS137. Error on 133 “Eagle” Sqn ORB for 26 Sept. 1942 ?

    Hello to all,

    Very recently several pictures of a crashed plane were given to a friend. Using two pictures, it is possible to prove that the plane is Spitfire BS294.
    Years ago, I had discovered that website : http://www.spitfires.ukf.net/production.htm
    On it, BS294 was supposed to be a 133 Sqn Spitfire IX lost on Sept.26, 1942, the famous “Morlaix mission” even if none of the planes ever fell near Morlaix.
    But the 133 Sqn ORB doesn’t have this serial number in the list of the lost planes for that day.
    But also, still according to Spitfire production web site (no longer accessible) BS137 would have later belonged to 331S several days later, then to FACB on 29-9-42.
    BS137 IX 3240 EA M61 FF 11-8-42 133S 'MD-D' 12-8-42 331S 29-9-42 FACB 5-1-43 GAL CAC on ff to 6MU 2-5-43 ros 222S 11-6-43 AST 16-6-43 mods AAEE as rogue aircraft from 22S rigged out of trim laterally with heavy ailerons 405ARF 24-8-43 131S 27-9-43 229S 25-6-44 FAAC 29-6-44 ros 504S 3-8-44 611S 3-8-44 swung to port undercarriage collapse landing CE Coltishall 13-9-44

    The temptation to replace one by the other was great, but BS137 is supposed to have been flown by P/O D D SMITH who is one of the three pilots killed that day, and according to the accounts of the family who provided the pictures, they saw the pilot of the Spitfire pictures baling out…(But this doesn’t mean he survived).

    I know there are very few existing pictures of those Spitfire IX they got just the month before that mission. If the squadron letters can’t be seen (fuselage broken just after the roundel), at least the individual letter is a “I”.
    The plane would have crashed north of Brest near Gouesnou. Just trying to learn more about the precise place.
    Is there another way to know which pilot flown which aircraft that day, than the ORB ?

    TIA
    Gildas

  2. #2
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    Hi again,
    Just found there was an answer in the following book By Jon E C Tan.

    Aces, Airmen and The Biggin Hill Wing: A Collective Memoir 1941 – 1942.
    Will try to get in touch with the author to learn more about the source.
    Best
    Gildas

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    Hello,

    Spitfire production list, no longer available?

    http://www.airhistory.org.uk/spitfire/_prodn%20list.txt

    Have you taken a look at Phil Listemann's Monograph, No.133 (Eagle) Squadron 1941-1942? The monograph contains a nice colour profile of BS294:MD-I, as well a description of its fate (p.133-7).

    Col.
    Last edited by COL BRUGGY; 10th June 2018 at 11:28.

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    Default Spitfire IX BS294 and BS137. Error on 133 “Eagle” Sqn ORB for 26 Sept. 1942 ?

    Hello,
    For what it's worth, this is a list I made some years ago.
    19-07-42 - Lt. Col. A.P.Clark - BL964(?).
    [ 8th & 9th AAF Losses vol 1 has EN784 ].

    19-08-42 - Lt. S. Junkin - AB811.
    19-08-42 - Lt. R. Ingraham - BL338.

    26-09-42 -
    1Lt. G. Neville - BS140.
    2Lt. R. E. Smith - BS447.
    F/Lt. E. Brettel - BS313 - "A".
    P/O. W. H. Baker - BS446
    Capt. C. A. Cook - BR640 - "V".
    Capt. M. E. Jackson - BS279.
    1Lt. G. H. Middleton - BS301.
    1Lt. L. T. Ryerson - BS275.
    1Lt. D. D. Smith - BS294.[ 8th & 9th AAF Losses vol 1 has BS137 ].
    1Lt. G. B. Sperry - BR638.
    1Lt. G. P. Wright - BS138.

    20-10-42 - 1Lt. A.J.Seaman - BM193.

    20-11-42 - Maj. R. Evans - AA752.

    Alex

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    Thanks Col and Alex,
    Col, I dropped a message to this new web site to learn some more, but on the previous one, when making a search with a serial number, you could find it. Now, it seems to me, but I may be wrong, that you only have now the first and last numbers of a contract.
    I did get Phil's document afew years ago if my memory serves me well, have to find it back. I do wonder on which other document than the ORB can be found a list of the planes sent that day to that mission.
    Alex, what other source did you use to get this information, apart 8th & 9th Losses that I also took ?
    Kind regards
    Gildas

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    Gildas,

    I'm not sure what you're getting at. Never-the-less, take a look at the complete site:

    http://www.airhistory.org.uk/spitfire/index.html

    You can find a listing of the Fighter Command Losses for 26th September, 1942, here:

    Royal Air Force Fighter Command Losses of the Second World War - Volume Two 1942-1943.
    Franks,Norman L R.
    Earl Shilton:Midland Publishing,1998
    pp.67-8

    Keep in mind that Franks' work is now 20-years- old, and a lot of research on the topic has been published since.

    Col.
    Last edited by COL BRUGGY; 13th June 2018 at 02:22.

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    Hello Gilda's,
    Good question, made my list some years ago.
    Obviously Air Brit RAF serial number books and "Spitfire the history" must have been two,also "Fighter losses of the mighty eighth" , there were also discussion posts on the www such as this and Lemb and toch sites as well.
    armyairforces.com was another, but not available to me these days.

    If it helps and perhaps someone could supply a picture or a link Henk's had somewhere a picture of 1Lt. Dennis D. Smith' a/c wreckage.

    Sorry I cannot be more specific now.
    Alex

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    Thanks Col.
    Please correct me if I'm wrong, but I suspect that I should have been able to find, as in the previous list, here in the production link, each and every serial number. If you try a search on the page of any of the serial number provided by the ORB, none is found. I think the production lists only he batches, and not each and every s/n.
    I do already own Norman Franks FCL and Chorley's BCL series apart one book in the BCL not available when I ordered years ago. But we all know about the possiblity of having mistakes and/or misses in such lists. We're just humans.
    Thanks also Alex for letting me know about this other existing picture. Thanks to your message it may surface again.
    Gildas

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    Gildas,

    Go back to post # 6, click on the link given. On the Production page, click on the highlighted word "downloaded". In the Production list that appears, click on "text file". It should bring up the full Spitfire production list. Bookmark the page!

    Col.

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    BS137 IX 3240 EA M61 FF 11-8-42 133S 'MD-D' 12-8-42 331S 29-9-42 FACB 5-1-43 GAL CAC on ff to 6MU 2-5-43 ros 222S 11-6-43 AST 16-6-43 mods AAEE as rogue aircraft from 22S rigged out of trim laterally with heavy ailerons 405ARF 24-8-43 131S 27-9-43 229S 25-6-44 FAAC 29-6-44 ros 504S 3-8-44 611S 3-8-44 swung to port undercarriage collapse landing CE Coltishall 13-9-44

    BS294 IX 3241 CHA M61 FF 11-8-42 133S 13-8-42 Ran out of fuel and forcelanded in Brittany 26-9-42

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