Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 14

Thread: Route for Courbronne (23/06/1944)

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Posts
    1,733
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 6 Times in 6 Posts

    Default Route for Courbronne (23/06/1944)

    Does anyone have the route used for the operation to Courbronne on 23rd June 1944.

    I have a copy of the loss card but it is unclear. I have Bradwell, North Foreland, ..............., .... 10.94 East Chain?, Target, 5037N 0220E, .........N ....... E, Orfordness, Base

    Can anyone fill in the gaps

    Regards

    Pete
    Main areas of research:

    - CA Butler and the loss of Lancaster ME334 (http://rafww2butler.wordpress.com/ )
    - Aircrew Training (Basic / Trade / Operational / Continuation / Conversion)
    - The History of No. 35 Squadron (1916 - 1982) (https://35squadron.wordpress.com/)

    [Always looking for copies of original documents / photographs etc relating to these subjects]

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Posts
    426
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts

    Default

    Pete, .... 10.94 East Chain will be a GEE fix. Regards, Terry

    EDIT: I think the target was Coubronne, which was a V1 site, 50 degrees 40 minutes N and 2 degrees 17 minutes E.
    Last edited by Terry; 21st June 2018 at 08:20.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Posts
    1,733
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 6 Times in 6 Posts

    Default

    Thanks Terry

    There is some unreadable test before 10.94 .... do you know what a GEE fix reference would normally show (ie were there two sets of numbers, or an alpha / numeric combination?

    Regards

    Pete
    Main areas of research:

    - CA Butler and the loss of Lancaster ME334 (http://rafww2butler.wordpress.com/ )
    - Aircrew Training (Basic / Trade / Operational / Continuation / Conversion)
    - The History of No. 35 Squadron (1916 - 1982) (https://35squadron.wordpress.com/)

    [Always looking for copies of original documents / photographs etc relating to these subjects]

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    London, Ontario, Canada
    Posts
    449
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts

    Default

    Pete - The 8 Group Form B has the Coubronne (target code Z3216) route as: BASE - BRADWELL - N FORELAND LATTICE B - 10.65 (E CH) - TARGET -5045 N 0228E - 5105 N 0230 E - ORFORDNESS - BASE.
    H-Hour was 0015.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Posts
    1,733
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 6 Times in 6 Posts

    Default

    David

    Thanks for the details.

    Does anyone know how practical it is to copy the Form B records at TNA? Are they in a continuous sheet or have they been cut down to A4 size to make copying and handling easier?

    Regards

    Pete
    Main areas of research:

    - CA Butler and the loss of Lancaster ME334 (http://rafww2butler.wordpress.com/ )
    - Aircrew Training (Basic / Trade / Operational / Continuation / Conversion)
    - The History of No. 35 Squadron (1916 - 1982) (https://35squadron.wordpress.com/)

    [Always looking for copies of original documents / photographs etc relating to these subjects]

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    London, Ontario, Canada
    Posts
    449
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts

    Default

    They are continuous teleprinter pages of different sizes in a bundle with some pages needing two or three photos to get all of it.
    The Form B files for all groups are especially difficult to deal with since each operation will have dozens of pages, the individual group appendices are easier to locate things. The main issue is you just have target codes to identify them with and you need to determine what the target actually was. The 8 Group Form Bs have up to 10 targets detailed for a single Form B.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Posts
    1,733
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 6 Times in 6 Posts

    Default

    Thanks again for your feedback.

    It sounds like a complicated and expensive job .... so I think I will have to pass on obtaining copies from TNA for my records

    It has been an interesting discussion as (a) I note that the route on the B Form differs from the one on the Loss Card so I will have to do a bit more research on that and (b) I will have to get a better understanding of Gee fix values such as 10.65

    Regards (and thanks again)

    Pete
    Main areas of research:

    - CA Butler and the loss of Lancaster ME334 (http://rafww2butler.wordpress.com/ )
    - Aircrew Training (Basic / Trade / Operational / Continuation / Conversion)
    - The History of No. 35 Squadron (1916 - 1982) (https://35squadron.wordpress.com/)

    [Always looking for copies of original documents / photographs etc relating to these subjects]

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Posts
    14
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts

    Default

    Hi Pete, I'd be very interested in your results for this as this was the raid my Dad was badly wounded on returning from Coubronne.
    I've always wondered about the route for this one.
    It'll be 74 years early this coming Sunday morning when he was wounded.
    Cheers
    Type683 (Phil)

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Posts
    1,733
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 6 Times in 6 Posts

    Default

    Hi Phil

    I try to revisit each loss that I have recorded prior to its anniversary to see if anything new has come to light.

    The route on the Loss Card for the 35 Squadron loss that night (ND734) shows "see 75 Squadron ND590" which is where I got my original route co-ordinates from. However, the route provided by David is more specific to 8 Group, so I am working on the basis that this was the briefed route for No 35 Squadron aircraft. I will let you know if I find any more details.

    Regards

    Pete
    Main areas of research:

    - CA Butler and the loss of Lancaster ME334 (http://rafww2butler.wordpress.com/ )
    - Aircrew Training (Basic / Trade / Operational / Continuation / Conversion)
    - The History of No. 35 Squadron (1916 - 1982) (https://35squadron.wordpress.com/)

    [Always looking for copies of original documents / photographs etc relating to these subjects]

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Posts
    426
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts

    Default

    Pete, It would be two sets of numbers, and you would need a GEE Chart for the east chain to decode the position, and I have yet to find one. I presume Graveley was the base? I am sure someone here will tell you how to access the route details from the appropriate reports; it has come up before. Regards, Terry

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •