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Thread: Duisburg (21/02/1945)

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    Default Duisburg (21/02/1945)

    Does anyone have a document showing the briefed route for the Duisburg operation on 21st February 1945.

    I have a Loss Card with a route which I THINK shows 5000N 0200E, 5010N 0500E, Ruhr (C Chain 36.29), Target, 5730N 055OE, 5055N 0520E, 5035N 0410E but some of it is very feint so wanted to double check

    Your usual help would be much appreciated

    Regards

    Pete
    Main areas of research:

    - CA Butler and the loss of Lancaster ME334 (http://rafww2butler.wordpress.com/ )
    - Aircrew Training (Basic / Trade / Operational / Continuation / Conversion)
    - The History of No. 35 Squadron (1916 - 1982) (https://35squadron.wordpress.com/)

    [Always looking for copies of original documents / photographs etc relating to these subjects]

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    Hi Pete,

    Night, 21st/22nd February 1945.

    Routes and Timing Ordered.

    Duisburg: 5000N 0200E - 5010N 0500E - 5050N 0540E - Duisburg - 5128N 0649E - 5130N 0550E - 5055N 0520E - 5035N 0410E - Bexhill.

    11 Mos: Haisbrough - 5234N 0559E - 5220N 0631E - Duisburg - 5115N 0600E - 5100N 0350E - Orfordness.

    T.O.T. 2300-2311 hrs. Over Continent 2130-0030 hrs.

    (Source: Interception Tactics Report No. 43/45, TNA AIR 14/3745)
    Last edited by RodM; 18th September 2018 at 22:24.

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    Thanks Rod

    Your time and effort is much appreciated

    Regards

    Pete
    Main areas of research:

    - CA Butler and the loss of Lancaster ME334 (http://rafww2butler.wordpress.com/ )
    - Aircrew Training (Basic / Trade / Operational / Continuation / Conversion)
    - The History of No. 35 Squadron (1916 - 1982) (https://35squadron.wordpress.com/)

    [Always looking for copies of original documents / photographs etc relating to these subjects]

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    Rod, Do you know what 11 Mos is? Regards, Terry

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    Hello

    Eleven Mosquitos would be logical.

    Joss

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    Yes, Joss is correct. Bomber Command Headquarters regularly used the contractions "Mos", "Mosq", "Lanc", "Hal" and "Hx" in various reports.

    Cheers

    Rod

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    As a bit of an aside on this one, is there a way of taking the C Chain figure(s) as shown on the loss card and reconciling them with the co-ordinates in Rod's post ....... just out of interest really as I do like to try to understand each aspect of my research

    Regards

    Pete
    Main areas of research:

    - CA Butler and the loss of Lancaster ME334 (http://rafww2butler.wordpress.com/ )
    - Aircrew Training (Basic / Trade / Operational / Continuation / Conversion)
    - The History of No. 35 Squadron (1916 - 1982) (https://35squadron.wordpress.com/)

    [Always looking for copies of original documents / photographs etc relating to these subjects]

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    Joss and Rod, Thanks. I did think of that, but thought it too easy a response.

    Pete, You would need a Ruhr Chain GEE map, which I have. It is interesting that "Ruhr (C Chain 36.29)" appears on the Loss Card but not on Rod's route. The first two coordinates are some distance apart, that leg is 115 miles in length. I wonder if the C Chain figure is an intermediate check along the course line and represents where the 36.29 crosses the course line. By my reckoning this would be at approx 5008N 0428E. Regards, Terry

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    Terry

    Thanks for the feedback.

    My understanding (rightly or wrongly) is that once the aircraft had reached a specified GEE co-ordinate, it would follow the arc to the target (and beyond) using the Gee signal to tell them whether they were on, left or right of the arc. Would this create the 115 miles run that you mentioned and also equate to the co-ordinates provided by Rod?

    I have tried to get my head round GEE, but the teacher would say "must try harder"

    Regards

    Pete
    Main areas of research:

    - CA Butler and the loss of Lancaster ME334 (http://rafww2butler.wordpress.com/ )
    - Aircrew Training (Basic / Trade / Operational / Continuation / Conversion)
    - The History of No. 35 Squadron (1916 - 1982) (https://35squadron.wordpress.com/)

    [Always looking for copies of original documents / photographs etc relating to these subjects]

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    Hi Pete and Terry,

    I've just checked the No. 1 Group Form B (from AIR 25/16):

    Form B Serial No 1856 Task No 1770 -


    K AND L [ROUTE]
    ((A) BASES - (B) READING - (C) 4940N 0200E - (D) 4815N 0550E - TARGET - (E) 4855N 0945E - (F) 4840N 0855E - (G) 4815N 0800E - (D) 4815N 0550E - (C) 4940N 0200E - (B) READING - (A) BASES

    N.7 TACTICS
    A. RENDEZ-VOUS READING 6/10,000 FEET
    B. CONTINUE AT 6/10,000 FEET AS FAR AS 0400E ON TRACK
    C. THEN CLIMB TO BE AT BOMBING HEIGHT 12/16,000 FEET BY POSITION (D) 4815N 0550E
    D. MAINTAIN THIS HEIGHT TO THE TARGET, FOR BOMBING AND AS FAR AS POSITION (G) 4815N 0800E
    E. THEN LOSE HEIGHT TO BE AT 6/10,000 FEET AT POSITION (D) 4815N 0550E
    F. MAINTAIN THIS HEIGHT TO BASE AREAS
    G. AS FAR AS POSSIBLE, AIRCRAFT CARRYING S B C LOADS ARE TO BE DETAILED TO FLY IN LOWER HEIGHT BANDS



    Amendment to Form B Serial No 1856 -

    K AND L [ROUTE]
    (A) BASES - (B) READING - (C) 5000N / 0200E - (D) 5010N/0500E - (E) 5050N/0540E - TARGET - (E) 5128N/0649E - (F) 5130N/0550E - (G) 5055N/0520E - (H) 5035N/0410E - (I) BEXHILL - (J) READING - (K) BASES

    N.7: TACTICS

    (A) RENDEZVOUS READING AT 6/10,000 FEET.
    (B) CONTINUE AT 6/10,000 FEET AS FAR AS 0300E ON TRACK
    (C) FROM 0300E CLIMB TO BE AT BOMBING HEIGHT 16/20,000 FEET BY (E) 5050N/0540E
    (D) MAINTAIN THIS HEIGHT TO THE TARGET, FOR BOMBING AND AS FAR AS (F) 5130N/0550E
    (E) THEN LOSE HEIGHT TO 12/16,000 FEET BY (G) 5055N/0520E
    (F) REMAIN AT 12/16,000 FEET AS FAR AS (H) 5035N/0410E
    (G) THEN LOSE HEIGHT TO CROSS THE CONTINENTAL COAST 'OUT' AT 6/10,000 FEET AND MAINTAIN THIS HEIGHT TO BASES AREAS.


    So as can be seen, for No. 1 Group at least, the route was prescribed by geographical Lat/Long rather than a position on a GEE lattice map. Unfortunately, I don't have the No. 8 (Pathfinder Force) Group ORB Appendices for February 1945, which also contain Forms B.

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