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Thread: Help with ORB deciphering needed

  1. #1
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    Default Help with ORB deciphering needed

    Hi all,

    I have found out that the Canadian version of 408 Sq ORB has correction for 18.6.1942 - top paragraph, 8th row from the top:

    http://heritage.canadiana.ca/view/oo...4/1730?r=0&s=2

    Chesil Beach is discarded and something written above but I am not able to decode the handwritten word.
    It look to me like "Blan.." but I may be totally wrong.

    As it is description of Hampdes returning from France and one of them crashed whille over France I would expect (from the sentence meaning) it would be some place in the Brittany?

    Any suggestion would be appreciated

    TIA

    Pavel
    Czechoslovak Airmen in the RAF 1940-1945
    http://cz-raf.webnode.cz

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    Pavel

    I thought it might be worth checking the scan on the National Archives website to see if it was clearer, but oddly the hand-written correction isn't on that scan. Not much help I know, but curious, nevertheless.

    Regards

    Simon
    Last edited by wwrsimon; 19th December 2018 at 16:53. Reason: typo

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    Hi Pavel,

    Not sure if this helps, but the Form 541 for this op on TNA (AIR 27/1796/22 Preview image 7 of 11) gives their duty as ARTICHOKE, which is apparently Lorient.

    Looking along a reasonably direct route from Balderton - Lorient, I don't see any of the usual landmarks I'm familiar with (Brehat, Channel Is., Ile De Batz, etc.) that I could plausibly match up to whatever the handwritten entry is. It looks to me like it ends in either LL or U. Bearing in mind that the crew are buried in Bayeux, I do notice that there is an island between Alderney and the Casquets called 'Burhou' and this could be within radar coverage, but it would seem to be a strange point to pick as a reference. Alderney itself would be a much more logical reference, and I would expect that crews might want to avoid the Channel Islands altogether as there was often flak in the area.

    Having written all this, I have realised it's a long way of saying 'I don't know'!

    I notice that both F540 and F541 reference appendix A855 for this operation - are the appendices available?

    Season's greetings,

    Jeff

    ETA: Although a wild thought has just occurred to me - could it be an abbreviated name such as "B'mouth" i.e. Bournemouth? I don't think there's enough to be able to decipher this one.
    Last edited by RecklessRat; 19th December 2018 at 21:08.

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    I checked Beraneks service file on ancestry.com and almost zero mention of anything relating to his death. No MREU report. Makes me think only a sample part of the file was scanned, might be worth asking Ottowa is there anything more specific in his file.

    And have you scrolled forward n back from that page to see is there a post war / later cover sheet highlighting corrections to the ORB? I seen lots of them but not sure were they monthly annual etc. Look to the start of the ORB.
    Dennis Burke
    - Dublin

    Foreign Aircrew and Aircraft Ireland 1939-1945
    www.ww2irishaviation.com

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    Hi chaps, thank you both for your comments:

    Jeff - I was going the same way as you but also without any result. I was not able to find Appendices, only some monthly reports in Canadian version but there is less info than in the ORB.
    As for you suggestions - Burhou or Bournemouth - it is too far. I understand that the radar was able to trace all 10 Hampdens to the position within 30 m from the unknown place, when one blip faded out = Beranek's Hampden crashed. So my conclusion is that it should be in +/- 30 m diameter from Lannion as it crashed nearby. Or my thought are incorrect?

    Dennis - it looks strange but it is not so uncommon. I have met already such a cases but in case of full RCAF crew I was able to find necessary information in the file of another crew member. In this case others were RAF so no luck. Yes I was looking around but I will do once more. There were some around May-June and some may be also on the next roll with monthly reports - I have seen there some letter from the London HQ requesting corrections.

    Pavel
    Czechoslovak Airmen in the RAF 1940-1945
    http://cz-raf.webnode.cz

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    Hi Pavel,

    The Canadian war memorial site includes a newspaper cutting that describes the loss; 'He was in communications with his base by radio and was describing his difficulties before crashing in the English Channel'. I should know better than to trust a newspaper report! On digging a bit further, I see that other sources quote the aircraft crashing at Beg Léguer 22, Servel. I suppose it is possible that they bailed out over the Channel and the aircraft crashed inland (which could explain how the crew ended up buried in Bayeux?). Presumably Luftwaffe personnel from Lannion aerodrome would have attended the crash site.

    None of which helps with your mystery location!

    (There is another minor inconsistency in that the ORB gives the aircraft number as AT220, while other sources say AT189/EQ-G.)

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    Hi Jeff,

    thanks for your further effort. I have seen all those sources and I have solved already all the puzzles except the handwritten word in the ORB.

    1. the newspaper article is a total nonsense - the ORB stated there was no message from the crew since take-off. But we have to take into account that it was written during the war with only very limited info provided probably by the family who cannot know anything from the facts we know now...
    2. they got killed in the crash inland as they were flying very low
    3. correct serial is AT189

    So the only mystery on this 408 Sq operation I would like to solve is the unknown location.

    Pavel
    Czechoslovak Airmen in the RAF 1940-1945
    http://cz-raf.webnode.cz

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    Default Re: Help with ORB deciphering needed

    Good morning all,

    I have a logbook on the way belonging to Squire from 408 sqn who was KIA on this aircraft, it should be here mid next week, not sure what sort of information, if any, this could bring, but will post as soon as I have it to hand.

    The description of the logbook sold reads: Alfred Edward Charles Squire was the son of Mr and Mrs. R. Squire of South Norwood, Surrey. He served during the Second War as a Sergeant with the Royal Air Force Volunteer Reserve, and having undergone training as a navigator in 1941, was posted for operational flying to 408 (Goose Squadron), R.C.A.F. (Hampdens) at Balderton in May 1942. Squire flew in at least 6 operational sorties with the Squadron, including: Mannheim, Cologne, 30 May 1942, Essen (3), including 1/2 June 1942, and a mining operation off the coast of France.

    Squire’s short flying career included both of the first Thousand Bomber Raids, before he was killed in action with the rest of his crew, 19 June 1942, when Hampden I AT189 EQ-G, ‘T/O 2240 Balderton for a mining operation in the Artichokes area off Lorient. All are buried in the Bayeux War Cemetery, France.’ (Royal Air Force Bomber Command Losses of the Second World War refers).

    All the best

    Bobbie

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    Default Re: Help with ORB deciphering needed

    Heres the link to the logbook gallery of Squire http://www.rafcommands.com/galleries...-Squadron-RCAF

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    Default Re: Help with ORB deciphering needed

    Hi Bobbie, thank you very much for sharing the Log Book pages! It is pitty my article about Beranek's crew loss has been already published last year ptherwise I would love to put there the last page.

    Pavel
    Czechoslovak Airmen in the RAF 1940-1945
    http://cz-raf.webnode.cz

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