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Thread: 10 Sqn Whitley claim, Weimar, Aug 16/17 1940

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    Default 10 Sqn Whitley claim, Weimar, Aug 16/17 1940

    Hello

    On the night of August 16/17 1940, Whitley P4993 ZA-V claimed a Bf-110 shot down near Weimar. The ORB has the following:

    Whitley P4993
    Up: 20.39
    Down: 04.45
    This crew attacked the primary target ["Zeiss works, Zena" (presumably Jena?)] successfully from a height of 6,500 feet with runs N.W. to S.E and S.E. to N.W. Four fires were seen on the target after the attacks. This aircraft shot down a Me.110 at Weimar. This aircraft took off from Weimar to attack our aircraft – this was witnessed by F/O Prior’s crew (D.T.200). Three bursts from Whitley P.4993’s rear turret were sufficient to cause the ME.110 to crash. No damage was sustained by our aircraft. No A.A. fire or searchlights were encountered. Some balloons were sighted at 10,000 feet 25 miles North East of Hamm. Clouds were 8/9/10ths at 10,000 feet over the target area. The one long delay bomb hung up.


    Is there a possible Luftwaffe loss or damaged aircraft that matches this claim?

    Many thanks,

    Simon

    EDIT - I wasn't paying attention and posted this on the wrong forum completely. It's been a long day...but of any can help, I'd be grateful...
    Last edited by wwrsimon; 22nd February 2019 at 17:54. Reason: Oops...

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    Hi Simon,

    According th Theo Boiten latest edition of Nachtjagd Conbat Archives the Nachtjagd failed to make contact with any bombers and the five lost all fell to Flak. He makes no mention of ant Luftwaffe losses.

    Cheers,

    John.

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    Simon,

    Make of this what you will!

    16/17th August, 1940 (Zeiss Optical Works, Jena).

    Of the other squadron aircraft (10 Sqn RAF), P4993, flown by Flight Lieutenant G. L. Raphael, was attacked by a Bf110 just before reaching Jena. Leading Aircraftsman [sic] A Cowie (whose promotion to Sergeant was snarled up in the administration pipeline) got in three good bursts from the quadruple Brownings and claimed it as a 'possible'. Flying Officer G. W. 'Pinpoint' Prior and his crew had actually seen this Messerschmitt taking off from Weimar, west of Jena, but didn't witness the combat.

    See:
    The Whitley Boys The Story of No. 4 (Bomber) Group's operations in the first year of WWII.
    Donnelly, G. L 'Larry', DFM.
    Walton-on-Thames:Air Research Publications,1998.
    p.179.

    Col.
    Last edited by COL BRUGGY; 23rd February 2019 at 06:55.

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    Default

    Thank you both for the replies.

    I think the description in the Whitley Boys as 'probable' is perhaps more accurate than the ORB's entry.

    620467 Arthur Cowie was awarded the D.F.M. which was gazetted on May 9th 1941:

    This N.C.O. has carried out his duties as tail gunner and Wireless Operator in an outstanding manner. He has completed 31 operational missions involving a total of 250 hours. Targets attacked include Hal, the Ruhr, Aachen, Wedau, Neuf Chateau, Wismar, Gelsenkirchen, Turin, Zena, Freiburg, Milan, Dortmund, Leverkusen, Berlin (2), Hamburg (2), Trier (2), Lorient (2), Amsterdam, Wilhelmshaven, Gelsenkirchen-Buer and Dusseldorf-Darrendorf. Owing to Sergeant Cowie’s valuable work as Wireless Operator, all the foregoing long distance fights were brought to a successful conclusion. On 16th August, 1940, he was the tail gunner when his aircraft was attacked by an Me.110 which was shot down. He has displayed the highest standard of efficiency and reliability and his bearing and behaviour on operations has been exemplary. I have no hesitation in recommending that his excellent operational record be recognised by the award of the Distinguished Flying Medal.
    5th March 1941.


    Obviously this doesn't tie in with the Nachtjag Combat Archives, however. Interesting that it states that five aircraft were lost to flak. The ORB 541 has reports from the 10 Sqn Whitleys on that Op that night, and they all state that they saw either no flak or very little and inaccurate flak over the target, but encountered heavier flak over Osnabruck and the Ruhr.

    Regards

    Simon

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