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Thread: Finding Early Service Numbers

  1. #1
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    Default Finding Early Service Numbers

    I have utilised the Index on this site - http://www.rafcommands.com/database/lgindex/index.php - but have struggled to bring up any results for numbers before 10000, i.e. any beginning in 01, 02, 03, 04, 05, 06, 07, 08, and 09.

    Specifically, I have been trying to establish service numbers for those awarded PCs on 1 Aug 1919, and have been doing it the hard way, as the LG search engine doesn't like brackets, full stops, and numbers starting in, say, 010 (too many, too hard?).

    Am I missing something on this site's search engine that I can't retrieve any 01000-09999 numbers, or does anyone otherwise know of a consolidated list?

    I've been trying to establish service numbers for all of my inter-wars 41 Sqn pilots, and have used the old method of matching the order of graduation/commissioning lists against the numbers known for other graduates (etc.) in the same batch. This has proven quite reliable in most cases, except one (in 1925) where there's no logical alphabetical number issue or order of graduation / LG notice number issue.

    The only other exception to this is the list of PC's for 1 Aug 1919. While most (not all!) appeared in LG no. 31486 of that date (https://www.thegazette.co.uk/London/...1486/page/9864), there is no logical sequence. In fact, in establishing known service numbers against the 1 Aug 1919 list, there appear to have been three (maybe more) alphabetically ordered issues of the numbers between 010XX and 05080, but the way they're listed in the LG, they're all over the place, e.g. the following men appear in this order in the 1 Aug 1919 PC list:

    02139 Andrew FERRIS
    03106 George Edward WILSON
    02141 Frank FOWLER
    04021 Denys GILLEY

    Has anyone done any data-mining or analysis of the first PC's issued by the RAF? I seem to recall (but can't find) previous posts about when the numbers were actually issued and that it was some time later. Can anyone remind/advise me on that, please?

    For what it's worth, these are my 'missing' 1 Aug 1919 PC service numbers:

    Reginald Carey Brinton BRADING
    Maurice Michael FREEHILL
    Louis Massey HILTON
    Patrick HUSKINSON
    Gilbert Ware MURLIS-GREEN
    Bernard Edward SMYTHIES
    Frank Ormond SODEN
    Frederick SOWREY

    Lastly, as a side note, while one shouldn't laugh at people's names, I did find some amusement in the 1 Aug 1919 PC list. Considering it is not in any specific order, I have no doubt that the typesetter amused himself a bit my listing the following two names one after the other:

    0XXXX Leslie Acton Kingford BUTT
    02092 Geoffrey Hornblower COCK

    There is no reason these names would have to appear together! :-)

    Thanks for any pointers or suggestions

    Steve
    41 (F) Squadron RAF at War and Peace, April 1916-March 1946
    http://brew.clients.ch/41sqnraf.htm

  2. #2
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    Hello Steve,
    I have sent you a PM
    Alex

  3. The Following User Says Thank You to Alex Smart For This Useful Post:

    Steve Brew (19th July 2019)

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    Hi Steve,

    I think when building the index, i had to remove numbers less than 10,000 for some vague reason that i cant recall now - so it does not have anything substantial 0-10000. Infact if you open the default page, it is sorted by service number and except for one - the second record starts post 10000. Let me look at the raw files to see if I have any data for the lower numbers that I did not load.

    Edit:

    Got these in one of my files - about 229 of them that were not loaded.

    A P STRANGE 8002
    Noel Vivian MORETON 8004
    E J MOULE 8005
    G E NEWTON 8011
    M W NOLAN 8015
    F A NORTON 8017
    G S ODDIE DFC AFC 8021
    E S OSBORN 8022
    G L ORMEROD 8023
    James Theodore PAINE 8026
    Louis Henry PAKENHAMWALSH DFC 8027
    Stanley Miles PARK 8029
    Lawrence Fleming PENDRED M BEDFC 8034
    G A H PIDCOCK 8039
    Sydney Leo Gregory POPE DFC AFC 8046
    S H POTTER 8047
    S L H POTTER 8049
    W G PRESTON DFC 8055
    R C PRETTY 8056
    Ysobel Marian GARLAND 8059
    William Edmund PURDIN 8061
    Sylvester Lindsay QUINE MC 8062
    G W C RAVENHILL 8064
    Frank Grenville Argyle ROBINSON DFC 8071
    ?? Vs W G FRANKLIN 8084
    Barnabas Henry Cross RUSSELL 8085
    H J T RUSSELL 8086
    N M S RUSSELL 8087
    Alfred Clifford SANDERSON DFC 8089
    H E F SAUNDERS 8092
    R C SAVERY DFC 8095
    E A SCALES 8098
    Francis Harbroe SHALES 8103
    r Phyllis LATOUR 8108
    Maureen Patricia OSULLIVAN 8109
    James SILVESTER 8110
    F W SINCLAIR DFC 8113
    Henry Allan SMITH 8117
    R S SORLEY OBEDSCDFC 8121
    C B S SPACKMAN DFC 8123
    R de L STEDMAN 8128
    J B STOCKBRIDGE 8132
    Robert Bruce SUTHERLAND DFC 8138
    Ernest TAYLOR 8145
    William Edward THEAK 8147
    849938 Herbert Ingram HADLEY 8148
    C F TOOGOOD 8151
    M J GREENBURG MB BCh MRCS L RCP 8152
    Edgar Albert TURNBULL 8156
    George Oswald VENN 8161
    Claude McClean VINCENT DFC AFC 8164
    Leslie Edward VINE 8165
    J C WALKER 8169
    Sidney Herbert WARE 8175
    C B WATERS 8178
    Henry WEBB 8181
    Sidney Norman WEBSTER AFC 8182
    T J WEST MC 8186
    A F WHITE 8189
    W W WHITEHEAD 8190
    Cecil George WIGGLESWORTH AFC 8193
    T M WILLIAMS MC DFC 8195
    C F C WILSON 8196
    Asst Sec Off T V A PARR 8198
    Eric BURTON 8202
    M H BUTLER DFC 8203
    John Henry COOPER MC 8207
    Eric Delano BARNES AFC 8218
    W W BRADFORD 8225
    Frank WOOLLEY OBE DFC 8226
    E WORMELL 8227
    Gilbert Latham ORMEROD 8230
    Frederick Robert WYNNE MBE 8232
    William Munro YOOL 8233
    K M JONES 8234
    Reginald Alfred Charles BRIE 8239
    1 F W BROWN 8240
    Fawcett Hagbert BUGGE 8241
    Harold John COLLINS 8246
    Catherine Provan CATHCART 8247
    D CRAIK DFC 8248
    E CUTHBERT 8249
    TECHNICAL BRANCH g LUSH 8254
    P A LAMPARD 8258
    L E A HEALY OBE B E LAWRANCE 8260
    M P LEONARD 8262
    M H fNiSBET 8273
    S W PEARSON 8275
    Madeline Kathleen KEECH MBBS 8286
    Gwenth Jean Elizabeth JORDAN MBChB 8287
    Alfred William DAWSON 8289
    1359799 Seymour Idris Powell WILLIAMS 8329
    I354946 Cunningham Borthwick Rankin MURDIK 8351
    1182749 Cecil Frederick Edward MURRAY 8352
    G C HOWITT 8355
    Fig Offs J E KIDD 8356
    E ROSSITER 8371
    J S M KING 8383
    M J CRAIG 8384
    M J EADES 8385
    H M H MCKEAN 8388
    J M PlCKBOURNE 8390
    J W SAUNDERS 8391
    M L WILLIAMS 8393
    iG E DANIEL 8413
    E MORRIS 8424
    W STEELE DFC 8429
    P E BATESON 8434
    K M HILL 8445
    S L BAINBRIDGE 8455
    M V BENEDEK 8456
    M BENNION 8457
    B R CARR 8459
    P K FORBES 8460
    J GADDES 8462
    V J GREEN 8463
    G R HOWARD 8465
    A T R MURRAY 8466
    P I PORCHETTA 8468
    B A ROWE 8469
    D Q McKEE 8490
    G H ANDREWS 8492
    E M DUNLOP 8495
    J D GUNN 8499
    C E MCNAUGHT GUNNING 8500
    William Basil SWALES 8521
    Elizabeth Mary Isabella MILNE MB ChB 8529
    Willis Glen WOOD 8544
    P F KEEN 8548
    William James Fox 8555
    A E BROWN 8560
    T D CONDY 8569
    H CROSS 8583
    If D HEATH 8589
    1293288 George Augustus Shotan WILLIAMS 8639
    Bryan Mostyn JNEWTON 8646
    u J y & Sro11118 8705
    A L ARNOLD 8717
    27th June1946 J A TOUBKIN 8751
    J R DE LA MARE 8782
    E J BANNISTER 8786
    E H SWAIN 8789
    E A DEASON 8808
    CvB BENDING 8817
    A O BABINGTON 8834
    G Le B KIDD MBE 8835
    G E F GOODE 8847
    Edward ROBINSON MBChB 8883
    JamesGwynfor WILLIAMS 8889
    William Herbert SALMOND 8902
    Frederic Joseph SMITH 8926
    Anthony John MULLIGAN 8970
    O R GAYFORD CBEDFC AFC 9008
    Allan HESKETH OBE DFC 9013
    A P LEDGER MBE 9023
    Alex Dudley PAGE MM 9027
    W B MORTIMORE 9028
    Alfred Douglas ROGERS AFC 9037
    J R STAFFORDLANGON DFC 9040
    Alick Charles STEVENS 9041
    F THOMASSON DFCMM 9043
    J F TITMAS 9045
    William John UMPLEBY 9047
    A C WALKER 9049
    M J WYATT M C 9055
    Douglas Leslie BLACKFORD 9057
    Alfred William CLEMSON OBEDSC 9058
    Frank Edgar BOND 9064
    Kenneth Lenton Bos WELL OBE 9065
    Harold Alan HAMERSLEY MC 9071
    A C MEREDITH 9075
    Vivian Steel PARKER DFC AFC 9077
    Frederick Laurence PEARCE DSO DFC 9078
    W B E POWELL 9079
    Archibald James RANKIN OBE AFC 9080
    Robert Harold ROSE 9082
    C R SMYTHE 9084
    A M BOYNE LRCPLRCSLRFPS 9095
    D H DABBS 9098
    Charles Howard CAHILL D FC AF C 9099
    A H WILSON 9102
    G S SMITH MBE 9107
    Arthur TURNER MM 9108
    S F VINCENT DFC AFC 9109
    C A TAYLOR 9113
    Cecil Rhodes STEWART 9128
    S G FROGLEY DSO DFC 9129
    E F KOHLER 9156
    Alwyn John WARWICK 9163
    Alfred Randies WARDLE AFC 9169
    Cedric Waters HILL 9176
    Eric Hardy OXLEY BOYLE 9178
    Norman Cuthbert SAWARD 9184
    S WYNNEEYTON DSO 9186
    R S MARTIN 9189
    W N GUMMING DFC 9196
    1 N H JAY 9198
    S T TIPPER 9200
    Maurice Hibbert ELVT 9207
    J de la P B PRESTON 9210
    Robert Linton RAGG AFC 9211
    Gilbert HARCOURTSMITH CBEMVO 9212
    E S MOULTONBARRETT 9214
    J de la P B PRESTON 9216
    C R STEWART 9218
    F J ISLIP 9219
    H D ONEILL AFC 9221
    C E F ARTHUR AFC 9224
    L H RIDLEY 9230
    J H BENTHAM 9237
    confmd in appts C B BOND 9238
    D MACLAREN 9240
    H A C ATKINSON 9243
    John Nelson BOOTHMAN AFC 9244
    Thomas William Stephen BROWN 9245
    P K CAMPBELL 9246
    Basil Edward EMBRY DSO AFC 9252
    A D H FOSTER 9254
    C GARDNER 9255
    Francis Joseph Gerard THORNTON 9279
    Seafort h Maj A A MacfarlaneGrieve MCTD 9296
    Mayhew 9312
    N M Ritchie CBEDSOMC 9334
    E CTDRUMMOND 9420
    I3I4359 Kenneth George Charles EAVES 9543
    N INAYATKHAN 9901
    Gerald BRONFMAN 9946
    T H STEELEPERKINS MRCS LRCP 9995
    G L COYNE 10012
    Last edited by Jagan; 20th July 2019 at 17:05.

  5. #4
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    I think that if I am right the numbers below 10,000 were all RFC that transfered( as it were ) to RAF in April 1919.

  6. #5
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    Thanks gents

    A word of caution on Jagan's list above. I'm not an expert and someone may be able to advise the exact constraints but the RAF women's services appear to have had no zero in front of them, whereas the men did, so that (using an example from above):

    William Basil SWALES 8521
    Elizabeth Mary Isabella MILNE MB ChB 8529

    SWALES would have been 08521, whereas MILNE would have been a straight 8529.

    I appreciate the issue of various programmes having the issue of a leading zero, but there was a difference that should be noted.

    Interesting, too, that the list you've provided, Jagan, starts at about 08000, but there was a large amount of service personnel with lower numbers that appear in the LG editions of WWII. That's not a criticism; just an observation.

    Alex, it appears that the numbers up to about 05100 were PC's of (or with seniority of) 01 Aug 1919. After that, it gets a bit messy with some 051XX numbers issued in 1927-28, and a couple of 07XXX numbers issued in early 1920. Most of the 07XXX block and 08000 to 09999 appear to have been allocated to SSC's from late 1919 to 1921.

    Wish there was a straightforward rule, but still working through it to make sense of it. Thanks for all the input.

    Regards
    Steve
    Last edited by Steve Brew; 21st July 2019 at 20:31.
    41 (F) Squadron RAF at War and Peace, April 1916-March 1946
    http://brew.clients.ch/41sqnraf.htm

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    Steve, Correct observation as i had observed the name of N INAYATKHAN 9901 - the SOE agent later awarded the George Cross . For me that was a red flag!. Interesting note about the leading zero - now that would pose some rework!

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    Hi

    I've just looked through my Cranwell Graduation lists and offer the following observations: -

    Entries from 1920 to Jan 1927 used the numbers 16001 - 16259
    Entries from Jan 1920 to Aug 1932 used the numbers 26001 - 26260
    Entries from Aug 1932 to 1940 used the numbers 33001 - 33563

    Those graduating in 1940 were allocated 43426, 43427, 43352 and 44181 - 44200

    There was also one cadet who wasn't commissioned until 1941 from the rank of Sergeant with the numbers 5905533/63787.

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    Thanks Jagan

    Thanks Mal, this is a good help.

    In your second line of graduation nos, did you mean Jan 1927 to Aug 1932?

    Thanks
    Steve
    41 (F) Squadron RAF at War and Peace, April 1916-March 1946
    http://brew.clients.ch/41sqnraf.htm

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