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Thread: Raf airmen interned in turkey 1943

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    Default Raf airmen interned in turkey 1943

    Hello!

    I am looking for more information about RAF Sergeant McCarty or McCarthy. I don't have the first name yet or Service Number.

    1943 February 15th, B-24 Liberator 41-23763 X Gump The Sniffer 98th BG, 345th BS went for special mission to Italy from Egypt.
    Equipped with ASV radar.
    Due to strong tail winds it was forced down in Turkey, Izmir, Ankara. Whole US crew Interned until May 1, 1943.
    Pilot: Capt. Thomas T. Omohundro, Co-Pilot. 1/Lt. Clarence B. Hand

    Onboard according to sortie report was RAF Sergeant McCarty or McCarthy.
    I believe McCarty was radar operator onboard.

    Is there any records of RAF Airmen interned in Turkey, 1943?
    Then please list the information in this thread.

    Regards
    JohanSWE
    Last edited by JohanSWE; 31st March 2020 at 09:37.

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    Johan, Hi,
    15 Feb 1943
    Egypt to Italy is about 900nm, Track 311(T).
    Egypt to Izmir/Cigli is about 545nm, Track 339(T). (Izmir is 290nm from Ankara!).
    A “strong tail-wind” (i.e. blowing from the southeast) from Egypt to Italy would mean they either arrived very early, or overshot the originally intended destination!
    To arrive at Izmir – 545nm off track to starboard – would need a very strong wind blowing from between west to northwest.
    Some of these data are mutually inconsistent, and they don’t fit together?
    Unfortunately there are too many (a) McCarty, and (b) McCarthy in TNA AIR 78/106 to attempt to narrow the choice down by ‘sifting’ the Service Numbers.
    Can you check?
    HTH
    Peter Davies
    Meteorology is a science; good meteorology is an art!
    We might not know - but we might know who does!

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    This a/c serial. Number 41-23763 crashed at Port Moresby according to the Joe Baugher web site -

    http://cgibin.rcn.com/jeremy.k/cgi-b...23763&content=

    Alex

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    Hello,

    B-24D 41-23763 - http://www.b24bestweb.com/gumpthesniffer2.htm

    Check 41-23673 "PATCHES" https://www.pacificwrecks.com/aircra.../41-23673.html and https://www.ozatwar.com/ozcrashes/qld230.htm

    B-24 Nose Art Name Directory/Forman/p.54 - Name: Patches - Group: 90 - Sqn: 319 - Serial: 41-23673 - Picture - Yes.

    Col.
    Last edited by COL BRUGGY; 31st March 2020 at 14:28.

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    Like Peter, Johan, and for the same reason (we were both meteorologists), I immediately wondered if your information was correct. Using re-analysed German charts I estimate the 18000 ft wind from Cairo to 32 N 25 E was about 290/40 knots at 1200 GMT/UTC, and from there to Taranto 320/40 knots. The mean 18000 ft wind between Cairo and Izmir was of the order of 300/40 knots. Thus the outbound leg from Cairo was always into a direct headwind. The winds might have been stronger above 18000 ft but certainly not a tail-wind.

    Brian

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    OK,
    February 15th, 1943.
    14 Sqdn, B-26 Marauder I,
    Serial number FK143, [ 41-7356 ].

    http://www.rafcommands.com/forum/sho...5315#post95315

    Another from the same squadron FK150 [ 41-7377 ] down in the Aegean Sea.

    http://www.rafcommands.com/database/...php?qnum=63888

    Alex
    Last edited by Alex Smart; 31st March 2020 at 15:10.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lyffe View Post
    Like Peter, Johan, and for the same reason (we were both meteorologists), I immediately wondered if your information was correct. Using re-analysed German charts I estimate the 18000 ft wind from Cairo to 32 N 25 E was about 290/40 knots at 1200 GMT/UTC, and from there to Taranto 320/40 knots. The mean 18000 ft wind between Cairo and Izmir was of the order of 300/40 knots. Thus the outbound leg from Cairo was always into a direct headwind. The winds might have been stronger above 18000 ft but certainly not a tail-wind.

    Brian
    This is the sortie reports.
    https://www.taracopp.com/98th-Bombardment-Group-WWII/W-021943/i-MtgRwfg/

    https://www.taracopp.com/98th-Bombar...43/i-25PBxMx/A


    My fault. According to the sortie The A/C ran into this strong tail wind 130mph somewhere between Rome and Naples, Italy with direction Brindisi, on the return. Brought A/C over to NW corner of Bulgaria and later to Izmir, Turkey.
    Last edited by JohanSWE; 31st March 2020 at 15:32.

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    Ah, [
    There was a pilot named Ned McCarty with the Group. Could it be him ? Perhaps he was with the RAF and transfered to AAF later on ?
    Alex
    Last edited by Alex Smart; 31st March 2020 at 22:42.

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    F/Sgt. McCarty, RAF flew with the same crew and aircraft on the 3rd July 1943 also.

    1Lt. Ned McCarty 1603931, of Illinois was pilot of 42-40322 that was lost on 1st August, 1943.
    Last edited by Alex Smart; 31st March 2020 at 22:51.

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    I believe that F/Sgt. McCarty, RAF was only attached to 98th BG when needed radar operators for ASV (Radar) Missions was needed, Some B-24D Liberators had at that time within 98th BG.
    And that there were a cooperation between the USAAF and RAF in Middle East / North Africa.

    I don't think F/Sgt. McCarty, RAF is 1Lt. Ned McCarty 1603931 or got transferred to AAF.

    When the American crew were released from internment in 1 May, 1943, I believe that F/Sgt. McCarty, RAF was released too.
    I just don't have the correspondence, from US or UK Foreign Department or information from the National Archives to confirm this.
    still looking. I wonder which British RAF units was in the area as 98th BG /RAF Gambut No.5 (LG-159) that might have F/Sgt. McCarty, RAF in there personnel list.

    http://discovery.nationalarchives.go...ails/r/C379817
    At least i found one record: CAB 122/978 Turkey: internment of US aircraft and crews



    /Johan
    Last edited by JohanSWE; 1st April 2020 at 16:14.

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