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Thread: Those RNLI Archives

  1. #1
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    Default Those RNLI Archives

    Thanks to RecklessRat

    https://rnliarchive.blob.core.window...81/1939wys.pdf

    To find 1940 etc google "1940wys.pdf"

    Avro Anson Mk.I N4961 ("UA-S") of 269 Squadron
    https://aviation-safety.net/wikibase/181381

    from 1939wys.pdf

    "CULLEN, BANFFSHIRE. At about 7.30
    P.M. on the 6th November, 1939, distress
    signals were seen from a R.A.F. bomber and
    a few minutes later the bomber was forced to
    come down in Cullen Bay. Four men at
    once put out to the rescue in the motor boat
    Quest. A light S.W. wind was blowing,
    with a slight swell, but the bomber was near
    the rocks and the rescuers ran great risk of
    having their boat washed on to them. The
    work of rescue was made still more dangerous
    by the fact that the bomber was carrying live
    bombs, but the four men were successful in
    rescuing the bomberís crew of four without
    mishap. - Rewards, £5 5s., and 3s. for fuel
    used.!

  2. #2
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    Default Re: Those RNLI Archives

    Paul,

    Many thanks to you and 'Reckless Rat' for bringing this excellent resource to public attention. It will be most useful.

    Regards,

    Martin.

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    Default Re: Those RNLI Archives

    Paul,

    Did you notice the inconsistency between the RNLI account and that of the Aviation Safety Network? The former describes saving four crew from the aircraft, the latter only two. I appreciate the 269 Squadron ORB lists only two - Flt Lt Mossford and P/O Brinsden, but I thought these aircraft were crewed by four men. At the time the Anson carried two machine guns (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Avro_Anson) and I strongly suspect the two unnamed men were ORs who manned the guns, but weren't considered worthy of mention by the powers that be - one had to become a Sgt to be recognised.

    During the early months of the war the ORB only ever lists two crew members which seems a bit strange given the aircraft were on wartime patrols and would need some form of defence - even if it was only a couple of .303s.

    Edit: Would anyone have a F1180 for this incident?

    Brian
    Last edited by Lyffe; 1st May 2020 at 14:10. Reason: Query re F1180

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    Default Re: Those RNLI Archives

    Operational loss so no F1180.

    The entry copied into ASN without permission contains errors in transcription from the entry in my book.

    I gave known crew but added text on four recovered by shore boat.

    The RNLI Record of Service pdfs were the ones I scanned 1939 to 1946 and OCRd as a donation to RNLI rescue records section at Poole ... last century... ye gods how time passes.

    Ross
    The Intellectual Property contained in this message has been assigned specifically to this web site.
    Copyright Ross McNeill 2015/2020 - All rights reserved.

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    Default Re: Those RNLI Archives

    Thank you for clearing that up, Ross; I wondered if that was the case re the F1180.

    Brian

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    Default Re: Those RNLI Archives

    Not withstanding Ross's comments above, Brian, you have to remember that ANYONE can type onto the ASN database, without even a logon for the most part.

    I could go into any entry there and type in Brian from RAFCommands caused this accident. Its completely open.

    I would look at the sources perhaps if anyone bothered to list them. ON the wartime Irish crashes I have taken liberty to add a link to my site and remove any cutting and pasting they did.

    But bravo on the RNLI, and Ross if you did the hard work many moons ago
    Dennis Burke
    - Dublin

    Foreign Aircrew and Aircraft Ireland 1939-1945
    www.ww2irishaviation.com

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    Default Re: Those RNLI Archives

    Brian,

    the answer is simple but does not reflect well on the RAF at that time. Or at least judged by our 21st Century eyes. Many, many unit ORBs for the early war period are totally or almost totally 'Officer-centric'. One will struggle to find mention of an NCO in their F.540s. Coastal Command were definitely the worst as a collective, but I cannot speak about the overseas commands.
    For example. 233 and 269 Squadrons only ever recorded the pilot and navigator, whether he was an officer or NCO, but never the wireless operator and air gunner (even if the latter was a commissioned air gunner !). Both squadrons persisted with this practice until at least the end of 1941. 220 and 224 Squadron did record all four names in their F.541s. The 220 Sqn. F.540 was not too bad in this regard but 224 Sqn. only recorded officer names in their F.540.
    The flying-boat squadrons were as bad, often recording just the two or sometimes three pilots.
    One other quirk I have come across is that some of the early Hudsons delivered to units did not have a turret fitted initially and until they did usually carried a crew of three. This practice probably faded out by April/May 1940 but was rare by then anyway. Impossible to know with 233 or 269 Squadrons - unless a crew were lost or had a serious accident.
    This has been a bugbear for me while looking at these units, and I'm sure even more so for Ross !

    Regards,

    Martin Gleeson.

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    Default Re: Those RNLI Archives

    Hi Paul,

    I'm sure I came across reference to those RNLI files some years ago when I was looking into some lifeboat operations, but at that point they were paper only.

    I was angling on Google for a potential newspaper report that might relate to F/O Myers' (possible) drowning - so it was a pleasant surprise to land these documents instead, they look like another valuable resource. The internet being what it is, however, I have grabbed the PDFs just in case they should ever disappear!

    With regards to F/O Myers, it may be that the report of two people arose as some sort of confusion, or the other person was not RAF, there doesn't seem to be a corresponding casualty that I could see. I'm also intrigued by the dinghy and the weather state - it doesn't sound like the sort of time to go for a dip!

    As you pointed out, the answers are likely to be in either of the ORBs for 2828 Sqn or the station itself. Perhaps when all this blows over...

    Regards,

    Jeff

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    Default Re: Those RNLI Archives

    Thanks all

    Yes defo 4 crew on Anson shane names probably lost to history unless reported locally in some newspaper “Local man tells story of rescue” etc

    Btw Ross I wondered if the scans were your work! glad To know now in Public domain

    The RNLI Magazine archives are also now online which may help with pre war incidents I have already found the report of one of my parachute incidents

    Take care all

    Paul
    Last edited by paulmcmillan; 2nd May 2020 at 10:37.

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    Default Re: Those RNLI Archives

    Dennis/Martin

    Thank you gentlemen, I was actually aware of most of the points you make. So far as crew make-up is concerned I think Alex's recent thread http://www.rafcommands.com/forum/sho...men-18-12-1939, graphically demonstrates the eclectic mix of crews at the time with ranks of those who died ranging from AC2c to Sqn Ldr. Interestingly the 9, 37 and 149 Sqn ORBs record all crew members.

    Brian

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