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Thread: Lanc ND645 22. March 1944

  1. #1
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    Default Lanc ND645 22. March 1944

    Hello,

    I'm looking for confirmation of the following crash details:

    Operation Frankfurt
    22./23. März 1944

    35 Sqn Lancaster III ND645 TL-O
    S/L T Rowe pow T/o 1846 Graveley. Believed shot down by
    Sgt A Simpson + Paul Zorner and crashed in the vicinity of
    P/O E H Williams + Giessen. F/L Haigh is commemorated on
    F/L A Grant pow panel 202 of the Runnymede Memorial. The
    F/L F Haigh DFM + rest are buried in Hannover War Cemetery.
    P/O M R Hunter RAAF +
    P/O H Gray RAAF +

    kind regards

    Steve

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    Default RAAF Records

    BOth Hunter and Grays casualty file has this for a title:

    GRAY, Harry Gray - (Pilot Officer); Service Number - 420662;
    HUNTER, Malcolm Ross - (Pilot Officer); Service Number - 421982;

    File type - Casualty - Repatriation; Aircraft - Lancaster III ND 645; Place - Schiffenburg; Date - 22 March 1944

    Probably a contemporary record that won't stand up but its there.

    unfortunatly neither is scanned yet.

    Dennis
    Dennis Burke
    - Dublin

    Foreign Aircrew and Aircraft Ireland 1939-1945
    www.ww2irishaviation.com

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    Default

    Hi Dennis,

    thanks for your answer.

    There is no town called Schiffenburg. But we have the "Domäne Schiffenberg" which is located 4,5km SE Gießen.

    kind regards

    Steve

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    Default Australian files

    That was the only match I could make also on google maps.

    if you purchase one or both of the RAAF casualty files their hopefully would be some details in them.

    regards

    dennis
    Dennis Burke
    - Dublin

    Foreign Aircrew and Aircraft Ireland 1939-1945
    www.ww2irishaviation.com

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    Default

    Hi Dennis,

    thanks for the advice. That's what I will do!

    kind regards

    Steve

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    Default

    Hi Steve,

    Be aware that the RAAF files may contain MR&ES material, but that these are report summaries, and not the original autopsy & other reports, on which the summary is based. At least that's what came up during my searches in NAA. Meaning that in your quest regarding the unknowns in Hannover WC, you should not expect too much from this channel. But surely you should try.

    If the material is not yet available in digital shape, you submit a request, pay a modest fee (Euro 9,37), and then after a few weeks you receive a message that you can collect the material from the NAA website.

    Regards,

    Rob

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    Default Who shot down ND645

    Steve - what evidence do you have that Paul Zonner claimed ND645?

    Both Zonner's claims are too late for ND645 and too far South.

    These pilots have claims at the right time and in the right place:
    Ofw. Rudolf Frank
    Obstlt. Helmut Lent
    Hptm. Gerhard Raht
    Oblt. Brinkmann
    Ofw. Willi Glitz

    regards
    Robert

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    Default Lanc ND645 22. March 1944

    Just an update to say as part of my research into the raid in Frankfurt 22/23 March 1944; the details of Pilot Officer HUNTER, who was one of ND645s crew, is available from the National Archives of Australia.

    The records can be seen on line via: http://www.naa.gov.au/collection/recordsearch/index.aspx

    The record title is:
    HUNTER, Malcolm Ross - (Pilot Officer);
    Service Number - 421982;
    File type - Casualty - Repatriation;
    Aircraft - Lancaster III ND645;
    Place - Schiffenburg, Germany;
    Date - 22 March 1944
    Series number A705
    Control symbol 166/18/309
    Contents date range 1944 - 1960
    Access status Open
    Location Canberra
    Barcode 1070382

    The location is confirmed as Schiffenberg, South East of Giessen i.e. 50:33N 08:43E

    The casualty enquiry investigation report says: ...the aircraft, already on fire an disintegrating in mid air crashed on the estate and exploded on impact.

    The report gives a time reported missing of: 21:30

    Hptm Paul Zorner makes two claims near Giessen.
    Boiten gives times for Zorner's claims as: 21:45 & 22:18
    Tony Woods gives the times for Zorner's claims as: 21:43 & 22:18

    From my research records the only debrief report from an RAF crew that matches the time and location is 15km away ESE at 50:30N 08:45E :
    21:48 Air fired tracer 5 miles S.E. Aircraft on fire seen to hit ground.
    I cannot find a similar debrief report around the same location for 22:18.

    So it would seem reasonable that Zorner's claim at 21:43/45 is the best match for ND645.

    regards
    Robert
    Last edited by Robert Lapes; 1st February 2010 at 23:33.

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