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Thread: Elementary Flying Training pre Enlistment

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    Default Re: Elementary Flying Training pre Enlistment

    He may have been taken on as an instructor because he would have had a fairly 'rare' and useful language skill. There are certainly examples of Frenchmen being taken at flying instructors because of language skills rather than outstanding pilot ability.

    Chris

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    Default Re: Elementary Flying Training pre Enlistment

    I doubt it was the language, there weren't any other Greek speakers learning to fly. However his 'Greekness' seemed to have been noted in the 'Sunday Chronicle' of 31 August 1941. Being that the clip was published 6 weeks after he began EFTS, and he clearly has his 'wings', helped me establish about him being an instructor.

    Andrew

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    Default Re: Elementary Flying Training pre Enlistment

    Quote Originally Posted by cyflyer1 View Post
    I doubt it was the language, there weren't any other Greek speakers learning to fly. However his 'Greekness' seemed to have been noted in the 'Sunday Chronicle' of 31 August 1941. Being that the clip was published 6 weeks after he began EFTS, and he clearly has his 'wings', helped me establish about him being an instructor.

    If you have Chistakis Charalambous service record it would be well worth posting it on this forum as some of the members are very experienced at deciphering RAF Forms.
    I use Imjur to copy/paste direct to the forum pages but any photo hosting site will work ok.

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    Default Re: Elementary Flying Training pre Enlistment

    Hi bvs/baz,

    I noted the highlights of his service history, but here is the full service history as per your suggestion, I did notice at EFTS it says 9 EFTS (a), whats the significance of the (a) ?





    Andrew

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    Default Re: Elementary Flying Training pre Enlistment

    The (a) normally means that he was 'attached' to that unit.
    In fond memory of Corporal James Oakland AGC (RMP), killed in action in Afghanistan on 22 October 2009. Exemplo Ducemus.

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    Default Re: Elementary Flying Training pre Enlistment

    The (a) normally means that he was 'attached' to that unit.
    As in an instructor ?
    Andrew

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    Default Re: Elementary Flying Training pre Enlistment

    Attached means that he was not on the established strength of the unit but was probably there to undertake a course before returning to his actual unit. If he was an instructor with a unit he would be 'Posted' to it not 'Attached'

    Malcolm

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    Default Re: Elementary Flying Training pre Enlistment

    Malcom,
    there seems to be a greying between the words 'posted' and 'attached'.

    If he was an instructor with a unit he would be 'Posted' to it not 'Attached'
    see the early page from 9 EFTS that shows clearly Flying Instructors were 'attached' to the unit.


    There is no doubt he was an instructor, that is a given, he joined 9 EFTS in 15/7/41, and in the EFTS orb are references in Jan '42 to his court marshal, and in May'42 to a forced landing he did, and, the newspaper clip picture (6 weeks after he joined) 31/8/41 clearly with 'wings'. No doubts. What I'm trying to establish is how he came to be an experienced pilot by the time he joined 9 EFTS. The options I placed earlier, also, another possibilty I realised, before instructing at EFTS, ITW Cambridge 4 months, followed by 51 Group Pool 4 months. Would flying training be undertaken at ITW for u/t pilots ? The University Air Squadron would have been operational (became 22EFTS), would flying training be undertaken while at 51 Group Pool ?
    Andrew

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    Default Re: Elementary Flying Training pre Enlistment

    Because 9 EFTS was effectively only formed on that date all personnel would initially be attached until a Personnel Occurrence Report was issued to formally post them to the unit, but generally an instructor would be posted to the unit.

    You say he is listed as an Instructor in the 9 EFTS ORB but I can't see him, am I missing something?

    His records show him as being posted to No 51 Group Pool and then attached to No 9 EFTS, this is quite normal but was usually used to assess whether a candidate was suitable for flying training before proceeding overseas for training. As his next posting was to the Air Crew Disposal Wing and the 3 (P) AFU, it does seem to suggest he had some flying experience and was assessed as not needing further training overseas. Perhaps he had learnt to fly before the war and become an instructor before joining the RAFVR, this is what 'Ginger' Lacey did, he was a flying instructor with the Yorkshire Flying Club at Yeadon when was called up.

    Malcolm

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    Default Re: Elementary Flying Training pre Enlistment

    Malcom,
    That page just shows the reference to flying instructors 'attached' to unit, not him personnaly. I said there are references to him during the time with 9 EFTS that prove he was an instructor, but I didn't upload everything. Normal time spent at EFTS for a student would be 6 to 8 weeks. Anything beyond that he is not a student pilot. He was there from 15 July 1941 until 11 August 1942, almost 13 months. I gave various examples to illustrate that he was an instructor. Here are excerpts from the court charge sheets, showing that he was instructing, also that he was 'posted to 51 Group Pool, attached to 9 EFTS'. Would his higher age group on enlistment have had any bearing on his direction of progression ?, he was two days away from his 26th birthday.




    1. Would he have learned to fly at ITW Cambridge ? Four months seems a long time when ITW was normally 4 to 6 weeks on average. I have seen others with 4 weeks at ITW, and here at 16 weeks, very inconsistant time spans.


    2. Would he have learned to fly while at 51 Group Pool ? Again, 4 months is a long period.


    3. Before the war, up to mid 1939, he wasn't flying, I have his correspondence up to then. Only possible between mid 1939 to enlistment in October 1940 (assuming a newly arrived young immigrant could afford to pay for flying lessons, and rent, while trying to earn a living)


    4. Joined the RAFVR and taught to fly, free, weekends ? (no records of RAFVR anywhere ?)
    Andrew

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