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Thread: Hurricane R4099 lost 1/10/40 or 25/8/41?

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    Default Hurricane R4099 lost 1/10/40 or 25/8/41?

    Another query.

    Hurricane R4099 is listed in ABS and in Air Crashes in the Lake District as having crashed at Crosby, Cumberland 25 August 1941 killing the pilot RJ Davies 1058458 of 59 OTU.

    Yet elsewhere (BoBT&N and Fighter Command Losses of the Second World War) say that this a/c went missing after pilot AR Covington 42591 baled out over Dorset after combat on 1st October 1940. Men of the BoB (wisely) does not specify the a/c involved in this combat.

    I have looked at Covington's combat report but it does not say which a/c he was flying, I don't know whether this is usual.

    Has anyone sorted this out please?

    Thanks

    DaveW

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    Default Re: Hurricane R4099 lost 1/10/40 or 25/8/41?

    Dave

    R4099 has two entries in Air 81:

    https://discovery.nationalarchives.g...ls/r/C14502772

    https://discovery.nationalarchives.g...ls/r/C16924393

    The 258 Sqn ORB Form 541 for September 1940 (Sept 30 - Oct 1, last page) has Covington in R4099, which was "damaged by cannon fire." The October 1940 Form 540 (confusingly!) entry for October 1st has Covington's Hurricane "destroyed by cannon fire."

    However R4099 is mentioned several times later in the month in the October 1940 Form 541 and also into November.

    Regards

    Simon
    Researching R.A.F. personnel from the North East of England

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    Default Re: Hurricane R4099 lost 1/10/40 or 25/8/41?

    Hi Dave,

    The F.78 for R4099 records that it was Taken On Charge by 238 Squadron on 1-10-40. Next entry is being TOC by 59 OTU on 30-3-41. Nothing on page 1 or 2 to indicate severe damage during October 1940, whereas the damage on 14 Aug. 1940 is recorded on page 2 and there are several M.U. entries after this date and before it went to 238 Sqn. R4099 was TOC next by 43 Group on 20-6-41(presumably for repair or modification) and then back to 59 OTU on 7 Aug. 1941. Page 2 of the F.78 records it was 'F.A. 'E' Burnt Out' on 25 Aug. 1941 and finally SOC on 31 Aug. 1941 with 59 OTU as the unit specified.

    That should clear it up but what Simon has noted about it being recorded multiple times in the 238 Sqn. F.541 during October 1940 and beyond absolutely seals it. Indeed the F.541 records it being flown operationally on October 2nd and 4th, so damage on the 1st must have been slight.

    Regards,

    Martin Gleeson.

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    Default Re: Hurricane R4099 lost 1/10/40 or 25/8/41?

    Simon, Martin

    Thank you very much for this. Can I infer that as Covington baled out on October 1st 1940, then he could not have been flying R4099?

    DaveW

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    Default Re: Hurricane R4099 lost 1/10/40 or 25/8/41?

    Dave

    The ORB F.541 for September (for some reason it has October 1st included in the September ORB Form 541) has Covington in R4099 between 10.39 and 11.30, then up again later in another Hurricane (P4232? it's watermarked) between 13.03 and 13.50. No mention of him baling out. Would he have been back in time for the afternoon Op if he'd baled out in the morning Op?

    He's then recorded as baling out of Hurricane V6777 on October 7th 1940 in the ORB F.540 for October. The ORB F.541 scan is very blurred and unclear, but seems to have P2881 as the serial for that date.

    Regards

    Simon
    Last edited by wwrsimon; 14th June 2020 at 22:33. Reason: typo
    Researching R.A.F. personnel from the North East of England

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    Default Re: Hurricane R4099 lost 1/10/40 or 25/8/41?

    Simon

    That's pretty conclusive, thank you. It seems then that the issue is with the mentions of him either baling out or 'believed' to have baled out, which on your evidence is clearly incorrect.
    Much obliged.

    DaveW

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    Default Re: Hurricane R4099 lost 1/10/40 or 25/8/41?

    Quote Originally Posted by wwrsimon View Post
    He's then recorded as baling out of Hurricane V6777 on October 7th 1940 in the ORB F.540 for October. The ORB F.541 scan is very blurred and unclear, but seems to have P2881 as the serials for that date.
    He is recorded in two AIR81s

    http://www.rafcommands.com/database/...name=Covington

    AIR81/3660 Pilot Officer A R Covington: injured; enemy action, Hurricane V6777, 238 Squadron, 7 October 1940. C16687758
    AIR81/4651 Pilot Officer A R Covington, Pilot Officer W A Proctor: interned; aircraft accident, aircraft crashed in Eire, Master N8009, 307 Squadron, 21 December 1940. C16688749

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    Default Re: Hurricane R4099 lost 1/10/40 or 25/8/41?

    Disclaimer - the ORB may possibly be incorrect, of course...it's not unheard of!

    But it sounds like it's probably right.

    Simon
    Researching R.A.F. personnel from the North East of England

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