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Thread: 1409 (Met) Flight a/c on 28 Jul 1944

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    Default 1409 (Met) Flight a/c on 28 Jul 1944

    Hello All,
    A very long shot. Does anybody know the a/c described on an aerial photo on 28 Jul 1944 captioned as "H 1409"?
    It was taken at 5410N 0700E (30nm west of Heligoland) at 12000ft heading 135(M/T?) at 1758(time zone not known). Photo labelled "Flt Lt Dale". Not known if this Pilot or Nav, but if a/c heading 135, and taken out of port cockpit window, then prob pilot?
    Any help gratefully received!!!
    TIA
    Peter Davies
    Meteorology is a science; good meteorology is an art!
    We might not know - but we might know who does!

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    Default Re: 1409 (Met) Flight a/c on 28 Jul 1944

    Hello,

    Navigator, possibly, J15042 F/Lt (Nav.) Robert Gordon DALE DFC (150 Sqn LG: 13/03/1942), DSO 1409 [Met] Flt LG: 24/10/1944)RCAF. Mission: 28/07/1944 - AMELAND - MEPPEL - CLOPPENBURG - OLDENBURG (3.00hrs, Day).

    See: https://www.rcafassociation.ca/heritage/search-awards/ - Pop 15042 in Search Keyword box - click on Search, then click to view.

    Col.
    Last edited by COL BRUGGY; 22nd June 2020 at 07:52.

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    Default Re: 1409 (Met) Flight a/c on 28 Jul 1944

    Col,
    Mni tks for that. Much appreciated!
    We will, no doubt, have to wait until TNA are "open" again to see (not me, personally, I regret) if we can nail down the a/c Sqn Letter to its RAF Registration!
    Tks again!
    Peter Davies
    Meteorology is a science; good meteorology is an art!
    We might not know - but we might know who does!

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    Default Re: 1409 (Met) Flight a/c on 28 Jul 1944

    Where did you find the photo, Peter?

    Brian

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    Default Re: 1409 (Met) Flight a/c on 28 Jul 1944

    There's a thread on the forum that I cannot find since I switched computers(!) that refers to a Robert Dale from Canada in the context of 1409 Met Flight. Will update if I find it again.

    Found it: http://www.rafcommands.com/forum/sho...ops-March-1944

    Another reference to him here: https://www.facebook.com/torontoscot...17568555018864

    Robert
    Last edited by robstitt; 21st June 2020 at 20:58.

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    Default Re: 1409 (Met) Flight a/c on 28 Jul 1944

    Hi Peter
    Are we sure we've got the right bod here?
    1. Heligoland is about 100 miles away (further on) from Ameland. If this Dale's flight was by Ameland and down to Meppel, would they have gone another 80-100 miles NE first?
    (ps See update rethink on this below)
    2. Wouldn't a photo carry the pilot's name not the nav's?
    3. Would a Mossie nav be taking pics out of the port side? Did Met flights use Spitfires with oblique cameras, or is the pic really an unofficial snap? Or did Met Mossies have oblique cameras fitted?

    You may be completely right, but these things just made me wonder.
    OR maybe it was a different flight that day, not the Ameland-Meppel one?
    Ian
    ps Just looked. Going north from leaving Oldenburg would pass Heligoland to the port side. That sounds more feasible.
    Last edited by ianh; 21st June 2020 at 22:47.

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    Default Re: 1409 (Met) Flight a/c on 28 Jul 1944

    Found this while looking for Mosquito IX camera installations. Appears that it had two ventral camera ports.

    https://www.flickr.com/photos/ajw197...in/photostream

    There are four shots of the aircraft accessible from the 'strip' at the bottom of the above image. An amazing time capsule.

    Robert

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    Default Re: 1409 (Met) Flight a/c on 28 Jul 1944

    Brian (et al)
    The pic was put up by a mutual acquaintance on the Mobile Met Unit group on another forum. It came - so he says - from a large number of photos gifted to him when he left the Met Research Flight. I'm not clever enough to extract it from there - let alone put it up on here! I might be able to get him to scan it, and email it to you if there's sufficient interest. The actual image shows the port wing, the top of a continuous sheet of SC/AC, and - in the distance (I estimate 20 miles?) - several humungous CBs complete with impressive Anvils
    The handwritten script (white on black) at the bottom of the print reads:-

    7281 WIN. 28 7.44// 5410N. 0700E 135. 12000’. F/L DALE H1409
    1758

    I think I decoded most correctly. Don't know what the first two are. I suspect flight/camera identifiers (or similar)?
    HTH
    Peter Davies
    Meteorology is a science; good meteorology is an art!
    We might not know - but we might know who does!

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    Default Re: 1409 (Met) Flight a/c on 28 Jul 1944

    Thank you Peter. I agree with, Ian, F/L Dale is not the observer but the pilot.

    Brian

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    Default Re: 1409 (Met) Flight a/c on 28 Jul 1944

    Just a very slight word of caution!
    We have all used reason, and logical argument, about what this flight did, and where/when. As I understand it, one of the things that PRU, etc, flights did was not to indicate to the Germans the actual target they were recce-ing, but to fly over all sorts of "possibles"?
    12000ft and 30nm west of Heligoland, and heading 135 deg True would certainly be on the Luftwaffe radar? So drop down, or climb, before starting the route (as Col reports) would be – to my mind – all part of the “cat & mouse” game played by attackers/defenders!
    HTH
    Peter Davies
    Meteorology is a science; good meteorology is an art!
    We might not know - but we might know who does!

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