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Thread: 77 Sqn ORB entry: '(Ground)' after crew member?

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    Default 77 Sqn ORB entry: '(Ground)' after crew member?

    Hello everyone

    A quick question - the 77 Sqn ORB for July 25th 1942 has the following entry:

    Whitley V Z9462 KN-Y

    Anti-submarine patrol
    R.A.F. Chivenor
    Up: 12.05

    Down: 22.00
    P/O CANE, E.
    P/O SMITH, C. E.
    Sgt. WHITE, R. J.
    Sgt. CURRY, G.
    F/Sgt. GREEN, R. C. (Ground)
    Sgt. WHITE, E. A.

    P/O CANE was detailed for patrol, aircraft carrying 6 x 250lb Torpex depth charges, and 4 x 250lb A/S bombs. S/E not carried.


    Does anyone know what '(Ground)' could signify...?

    Regards

    Simon
    Researching R.A.F. personnel from the North East of England

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    Default Re: 77 Sqn ORB entry: '(Ground)' after crew member?

    Ground crew? - not operational crew - down for a jolly, air experience or to check a bit of kit ?

    Does he appear in any other crew logs

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    Default Re: 77 Sqn ORB entry: '(Ground)' after crew member?

    Simon, I would agree with Paul.
    From the position in the crew I would guess he was flying as an Air Gunner and there was one case when the squadron was short of AGs so the AG was picked up as a volutneer from Ground staff - Armourers.
    So this may be similar case?

    Pavel
    Czechoslovak Airmen in the RAF 1940-1945
    http://cz-raf.webnode.cz

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    Default Re: 77 Sqn ORB entry: '(Ground)' after crew member?

    Thanks Paul and Pavel

    There's just a Sgt P. A. Greene also recorded in the June and July ORB Forms 541 but on a different crew.

    F/Sgt. R C. Green was indeed the front gunner, and I think he got a lot more than he bargained for, as Z6942 had a combat with an Arado 196, in which he's recorded as being wounded. Here's the full entry from the Form 541:

    P/O CANE was detailed for patrol, aircraft carrying 6 x 250lb Torpex depth charges, and 4 x 250lb A/S bombs. S/E not carried. Six stationery tunneymen and seven steam trawlers were seen. When on course 040º, height 1,000 feet, sighted Arado 196 on reciprocal course, climbing from sea level. E/A turned and attacked from starboard quarter, at 600 yards, giving 2 second burst. E/A broke off to port quarter, made wide arc, and then coming in dead astern to 600 yards. It turned to starboard, opening fire for two seconds. Whitley tail gunner replied with two second burst, and Arrado [sic] broke off to port. Repeating this manoeuvre, E/A attacked from dead astern from 800 yards, turning to starboard, firing again and closing to 600 yards, Whitley tail gunner replied, with three second burst, E/A breaking off to port, and diving to sea level. Tail gunner gave further burst as E/A dived. E/A made wide arc coming in on our aircraft’s starboard bow. Front gunner gave short burst. Starboard engine and front gunner hit by Arrado [sic] cannon shells, Engine caught fire, and fire extinguishers used, fire finally being put out by diving. Propeller was feathered, E/A broke away to rear of our aircraft, our tail gunner firing five second burst at 200 yards, hitting rear gunner’s position in the E/A, afterwards no return fire was experienced from rear gunner of E/A. E/A broke away port beam, and made a wide arc going out of sight, re-appearing out of sun, and attacking from port bow. Our aircraft was not hit. As our aircraft’s turrets were u/s through engine failure, gunners unable to reply as E/A broke away, passing to starboard. Our tail gunner saw E/A momentarily in his sights, and gave two one second bursts, guns being used horizontally by hand. No hits were seen on E/A. E/A broke off and flew towards France. After failure of engine, our aircraft was unable to climb to slight cloud cover. All bombs and depth charges jettisoned. After front gunner (F/Sgt. Green) had been hit, he came back and operated wireless, W/Op manning front gun. Total time of action 35 minutes, Arado 196 claimed as damaged. Aircraft landed at Predannack.


    The W/Op Sgt. Curry was awarded the D.F.M., and the citation includes:

    ...the aircraft in which he was flying on patrol over the Bay of Biscay was attacked by an enemy fighter. The gunner was severely wounded. Flight-Sergt. Curry completed his task and, after assisting his wounded comrade from the forward position, continued to man the guns until the attack was frustrated.

    Regards

    Simon
    Researching R.A.F. personnel from the North East of England

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    Default Re: 77 Sqn ORB entry: '(Ground)' after crew member?

    Hi Simon, this is very interesting indeed. But it does not fit to my idea as an Armourer would be hardly able to operate wireless.
    This looks more like F/Sgt Green was trained a full WOP/AG but for some reason he was later grounded (medical grounds ?) - working for example as a ground wireless operator or wireless mechanic and in those cases he was again put into the air crew for some reason? Just thinking aloud...

    Pavel
    Czechoslovak Airmen in the RAF 1940-1945
    http://cz-raf.webnode.cz

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