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Thread: Counting no. of operational sorties before being screened

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    Default Re: Counting no. of operational sorties before being screened

    Speaking of stamps in red ink, from the log books I have seen there seems to have been a wide variety of ways to indicate operational flights, including a plain description in the Duty column (sometimes underlined), the notation 'Ops' followed by a description, a cross in red ink in the left margin and sequential numbers in red or other ink.

    Was there ever a prescribed way of making these entries?

    Robert

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    Default Re: Counting no. of operational sorties before being screened

    For possible future ref, just a little more on extant, available Flying Log Books.

    Over a decade or more I was given access to 32 Log Books of 16 pilots and and of 16 observers, navigators or wireless op/air gunners, all of 211 Squadron.
    Most came my way as copies or extracts via aircrew or family.

    Fortunately, no less than six were available as complete copies via official collections, five of them thanks to DoRIS.
    Whether this is a more or less usual representation, of RAF Museum holdings for any one Squadron, cannot say.

    I don't now recall the photocopying charges. Much respect for DoRIS staff.
    Last edited by Don Clark; 13th October 2020 at 21:25.
    Toujours ŕ propos

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    Default Re: Counting no. of operational sorties before being screened

    Chiming in on this one again, I don't necessarily agree that logbooks are the best way to total the number of operations. For many years, I thought that dad was credited with 31 operations. That's what his logbook said and the operations were recorded in the ORBs but there was an operation to Cologne, December 21, 1944.
    https://heritage.canadiana.ca/view/o...92/961?r=0&s=3
    Dad recorded it as an operation. They were unable to bomb as all nav aids became u/s. It's listed in the ORB as Abortive, OET (Over Enemy Territory).
    https://heritage.canadiana.ca/view/o...92/990?r=0&s=3
    But later, much later, I looked through the battle orders and dad WAS NOT credited for this operation. I'm sure he would have been "livid" over this if he had known, but he died in 1994 believing this was an operation. So you cannot assume the Logbook as the gospel truth.

    I have refreshed myself about your research and suggest you explore the ORB's again. The ORB squadron summaries should list the number of operations for those who were lost or killed on operations, even crashes. That's where I would look for the particular information you seek.

    Jim
    Last edited by JDCAVE; 14th October 2020 at 05:42.

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    Default Re: Counting no. of operational sorties before being screened

    So Mary Anne: This is the best information on what you seek:

    https://heritage.canadiana.ca/view/o...302/13?r=0&s=2

    Credits for tours were based on a point system. Ops to Germany were "Four-Pointers". This crew were each credited a total of 28 points over 7 operations, except for the pilot who was credited with 8 as he would have done a 2nd dickie trip with another crew.

    There is another question I have which is not clear: Were any of the crew on their second tour? Usually, if any are, this would be identified as such for casualties in the ORB.

    Jim

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    Default Re: Counting no. of operational sorties before being screened

    The Log Book I have, a navigator flying in Mitchells, is marked DCO for completed operations, and DNCO for incomplete/aborted operations. DCO = Duty Carried Out, and DNCO = Duty Not Carried Out. Also Air Sea Rescue searches counted as half an op. Regards, Terry

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    Default Re: Counting no. of operational sorties before being screened

    No. 83 Squadron maintained a formal record of sorties for each airman on a pre-printed "official" form

    example here https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.a...document/10641

    cheers PeteS
    https://630squadron.wordpress.com/

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    Default Re: Counting no. of operational sorties before being screened

    Quote Originally Posted by PeteS View Post
    No. 83 Squadron maintained a formal record of sorties for each airman on a pre-printed "official" form

    example here https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.a...document/10641

    cheers PeteS
    https://630squadron.wordpress.com/
    Pete. That form looks like it would have been used throughout the command, including Commonwealth squadrons. The question is, were these retained in the archives somewhere or lost forever.

    Jim

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    Default Re: Counting no. of operational sorties before being screened

    What a useful record.

    Check shows "No results" on searching exact phrase
    "Sortie Record Sheet"
    at TNA Discovery
    nor at RAF Museum Navigator.
    while the search options, once you find them, at IBCC yield muddled results.

    Clearly issued in bulk at least twice, in Jun and Oct 44 from the form headers.
    Possibly enquiry at IBCC or RAF Museum DoRIS may show the extent of any remaining holdings.

    Was a similar form provided for those Cmds, Groups, Units where "tour" limits were set on ops hours flown? More a q for DoRIS, perhaps.

    Lastly, revisiting RAF Museum Navigator showed the need for keeping "current" on method etc.
    I was advised quite a while back that Flying Log Books were not in the on-line catalogue
    Now, I may have misled Mary Anne as OP, in that at least 106 Flying Log Books are currently listed by searching
    "Flying Log Book"
    in the Navigator, as above.
    And is that the full extent of holdings?
    Perhaps not, as I have copies of five for 211 Sqn: that's a high proportion of the 106, just for the one "lesser known" Sqn.
    Another q for DoRIS?

    Sources as embedded +/or prior post.
    Last edited by Don Clark; 14th October 2020 at 22:22.
    Toujours ŕ propos

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    Default Re: Counting no. of operational sorties before being screened

    Pete, Don: Yes it is a useful record, and there must be something similar that was in use with other squadrons. I applied for and received what was supposedly my father’ full RCAF records from the war. There was nothing in them pertain to to operations, only that he qualified for his operational wings.

    Jim

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    Default Re: Counting no. of operational sorties before being screened

    Thanks Jim. I agree, the ORB "Detail of Work Carried Out" has proved to be the most detailed info I have found. The Operational Order for that night says "(7 trips)" beside the Capt. but this clearly was the crew's count since the pilot, as you pointed out, had flown an extra op as second dickie with another crew. As far as I am aware, none of the crew were on their second tour.

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