31 October 1942 - Runnymede Casualties

[mhuxt]

Hello All:

I'm chasing details of a German claim at sea on 31 October 1942. I can't find anything which matches yet, however the CWGC lists the following men as lost on that date, remembered on the Runnymede memorial. Does anyone have details of their loss?

Grey, Henry Marshall, Sergeant, RAFVR 1081473
Burchell, Geoffrey Maurice, Warrant Officer, RAF 564123
Riley, William Leo, Leading Aircraftman, RAFVR 1512769
Sinniah, Seva Suriyapillai, RAFVR 1800190
Thomson, Peter Yeats, Sergeant, RAF 656526

Many thanks for any details,

Mark

[Leendert]

Mark,

Perhaps it helps if you can tell us where this happened and what type of aircraft was claimed?

You refer to the claims by Uffz. Bölter and/or Ltn. Knoke north of Wangerooge (Blenheims)?
May have been other two-engined types as well... (Beaufort, Beaufighter, Wellington).

Regards,

Leendert

[mhuxt]

Hi Leendert:

I do indeed refer to the two claims you've mentioned - can't find anything from Bomber Command, so I'm looking for "something else".

What the something else is, I have no idea, but with two aircraft reported having fallen in flames well out to sea, I wondered if the Runnymede losses might provide some clue.

Cheers,

Mark

[Leendert]

If not Bomber Command, then Coastal Command comes into mind.

I'm sure someone can look up if any CC losses were recorded that day in that area...

Regards,

Leendert

[Marks]

Mark,

RAF Overseas War Deaths 1939-48 :-

Grey, Henry Marshall, Sergeant, RAFVR 1081473 - 1 (O) A.F.U
Burchell, Geoffrey Maurice, Warrant Officer, RAF 564123-England Death Register -Durham W
Riley, William Leo, Leading Aircraftman, RAFVR 1512769 - 1 (O) A.F.U
Sinniah, Seva Suriyapillai, RAFVR 1800190 (no overseas ?, no England Death Register)
Thomson, Peter Yeats, Sergeant, RAF 656526 - 1 (O) A.F.U

All the best

Mark

[Dick]

Hi Mark
There is not enough information to be certain but it seems the incident is mentioned in Heinz Knoke's book "I Flew for the Fuhrer". He reports that his unit was engaged that day in Convoy patrols and that the convoy was attacked at about 1414. Knoke took off soon after to re-inforce those already airborne who were engaged with 4 Blenheims and running short of fuel. Knoke arrived 10 Mins after t/o and saw 1 Blenheim go into the sea in flames. He attacked another and set an engine on fire but it climbed into cloud. A later report from a German crash boat is of a Blenheim falling out of cloud into the sea. He gives a map ref. Anton-Quelle-3. Knoke was credited with it's destruction. I would agree with Leendert that the most likely source of the Blenheims was Coastal Command and don't forget the possibility of faulty A/C recognition. Warner's Blenheim doesn't seem to have any losses for the Date
Regards
Dick

[mhuxt]

Hi Both:

Dick - Yes, that's the one. I hadn't been able to find any matches through the conventional sources, was hoping the Runnymede info might turn something up.

Mark - Many thanks for that. I take it from your info that an Advanced Flying Unit (Observers) aircraft must have gone down somewhere.

Ross - Any CC losses that day?

Cheers all,

Mark

[Ross_McNeill]

Hi Mark,

No CC losses that are un-accounted for (just one No.10 OTU Whitley ditched into the Atlantic after engine failure).

The 1 OAFU was Anson AX173 but this was lost over the Irish Sea.

Regards
Ross

[mhuxt]

Many thanks Ross.

Nothing then for an encounter off the northern Dutch Islands.

Wonder if this is just fighter jocks seeing what they want to see again?

Will see if I can find the BC ORB for the day, see if the convoy patrol did have some contact.

Cheers all,

Mark

[Keith Bryers]

Sgts Thomson & Grey and LACs Riley and Suriyapillia were all in ANSON AX173 OF 1(O)AFU, Wigtown, which was on a navex and presumed to have crashed in the Irish Sea; the unit ORB (Air 29/544) gives the date as 1/11/42 and serial as AX113. Air-Britain AA100-AZ999 says 31/10/42 for AX173.

AX113 had been transferred to the RAAF in 1941.

Keith