RAF Senior Officers during WW2 - Service Numbers needed

[paulmcmillan]

I am up to C on the Perm Commission List - I will work at it peace meal

Paul

[Ross_McNeill]

09065 Boswell Kenneth Lenton S/L 1/1/36

Sent Jagan a copy of my RAF Gradation spreadsheet containing almost 19,000 individuals gleaned from AFL

Ross

[vrajm]

WRIGLEY Henry Neilson CBE DFC AFC (Service no. 6)

https://nominal-rolls.dva.gov.au/vet...=1204596&c=WW2

No.6 (pages 1,5,15/44)

https://recordsearch.naa.gov.au/Sear...spx?B=30957655

https://www.3squadron.org.au/indexpages/AWMWrigley.htm

https://recordsearch.naa.gov.au/Sear...=522707&isAv=N

or

Wrigley Henry Neilson : SERN Captain 3734

https://recordsearch.naa.gov.au/Sear...aspx?B=3451318

(page 49/49)

http://ww1vic.weebly.com/wr.html

WIGGINS, CARN SCARLETT 1336 - not 6

https://nominal-rolls.dva.gov.au/vet...=1067729&c=WW2

Regards

Mojmir

[Resmoroh]

Be interesting if anybody discovers a pattern to the eventual late allocation of Service Numbers to some of Air Rank, but I must admit that whilst transcribing from Malcolm's RAFWEB one was not immediately apparent?
HTH
Peter Davies

[Ross_McNeill]

A large sample is needed to divine pattern.

As stated RAF Commissioned Personal Numbers were not initially listed in Gazette pre war - however Manning had started a system on 1st April 1918 for both Commissioned and ORs.

For commissioned any officer transferred on formation already had a seniority from the arm of service they had served in and the RAF manning roughly followed descending rank, seniority within rank and alphabetic surname.

Equivalence of rank also had to be applied between RNAS and RFC so these were also intermingled.

Finally for those with seniority pre RFC it also depended on British Army Order of Precedence - not all regiments are equal!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Britis..._of_precedence

Gaps also appear where the officer numbered by RAF Manning chose not to remain in RAF service April 1919 and returned to the previous Arm of Service.

S/Ldr rank on formation 1/4/1918 is the first rank where the RAF Manning number system starts to become predictive.

01201 Marix R L G Reginald Lennox George
01194 Long S G Samuel Godfrey

01193 Lister T V Thomas Vaughan

01191 Levick A Albert


01185 Laws F C V Frederick Charles Victor
01183 Wells J K John Kilner

01163 Hamilton B H N H Benjamin Henry Noel Hans
01155 Gaskell-Blackburn V Vivian


01150 Faithfull G F H George Ferdinand Hay
01148 England T H Tom Harry

01147 Elsdon T W Thomas Wilfrid

01145 de Roeper B P H Bruno Philip Henry
01144 De Courcy J A G John Arthur Gerald
01140 Currie A J Alfred James

01138 Crosbie D S K Dudley Stuart Kays
01136 Corballis E R L Edward Roux Littledale
01133 Cooke G G H Gilbert George Herbert
01129 Butler A J Albert James

01127 Burchall P R Percival Russell

01126 Bullen T F Thomas Francis

01124 Brown V S Vernon Sydney

01122 Breese G F George Frederick

01114 Archer J O John Oliver

01113 ap Ellis A Augustine


01112 Allen D L Dermott Lang

01111 Wynn A H W E Alfred Hearst Wynn Elias
01110 Wise P K Percival Kinnear

01109 Williamson H A Hugh Alexander

01098 Ranken F Francis


01079 Grant-Dalton S Stuart


01071 Fletcher J N John Norman

01059 Cave-Browne-Cave T R Thomas Reginald

01042 Blackburn H Harold


01026 Groves P R C Percy Robert Clifford
00855 Preston W G Walter George

00051 Breese C D Charles Dempster


Ross

[Ross_McNeill]

Moving to 1920 is the next disrupter for just taking AFL/Gazette entry as Acting P/O, P/O, F/O and assigning Personal Number as a block to the alphabetic surname list.

Cranwell Flight Cadets were assigned an out of general sequence Personal Number following their alphabetic surname.

On passing out 2 years later they were gazetted in seniority F/O and retained their Cranwell sequence personal number.

As the Cranwell graduates were destined for permanent Commission rather than the Short Service of other entry they statistically form the more senior ranks, including Air Rank for 1939 to 45 service.

This can seem to cause the jumble of Personal Numbers for a given rank Seniority list.

Ross

[Resmoroh]

Ross,
Very many thanks for taking the time to explain what was going on.
At the levels of my RAF career(s) it often seemed that ”They” were using Random Numbers and/or “Making It Up As ‘They’ Went Along”!!!!
I appreciate your comment about Army Regt precedences! It could be a nightmare night-stopping in a Mess with a large (varied) Army presence. It was “bad form” to query why some regimental officers were wearing their hats backwards on alternate Thursdays. I jest, but you get my meaning?!!
Many thanks for the tutorial. It makes things easier to understand!
Peter Davies

[Ross_McNeill]

The Officer Mess Senior Steward for the Harrier Trials group Battle of Britain Dining Night method of precedence to the various Navy, Army RAF and Luftwaffe guests was a simple command:

Winners to the left - Losers to the right

Set the tone for the night as one of the Luftwaffe Officers had just rolled a trial aircraft into a ball during hover transition - he asked if he could enter it into his log (continued from 1945 on reformation) as his xth Allied Kill.

Ross

[COL BRUGGY]

WRIGLEY Henry Neilson CBE DFC AFC (Service no. 6)

https://nominal-rolls.dva.gov.au/vet...=1204596&c=WW2

No.6 (pages 1,5,15/44)

https://recordsearch.naa.gov.au/Sear...spx?B=30957655

https://www.3squadron.org.au/indexpages/AWMWrigley.htm

https://recordsearch.naa.gov.au/Sear...=522707&isAv=N

or

Wrigley Henry Neilson : SERN Captain 3734

https://recordsearch.naa.gov.au/Sear...aspx?B=3451318

(page 49/49)

http://ww1vic.weebly.com/wr.html

WIGGINS, CARN SCARLETT 1336 - not 6

https://nominal-rolls.dva.gov.au/vet...=1067729&c=WW2

Regards

Mojmir

Re: Wrigley's B2455:

Wrigley, Henry Neilson : SERN Captain 3734

Ref:

(p 49/49)

During the 1914/18 war, Australian Army Officers were not allocated Service/Regimental numbers (nor were Officers of the AFC).

The reference you see on page 49 of 49 (C3734), refers to the person who has made an amendment/correction to the record. It his identifying mark, so he could be identified/questioned later on as to why he made the amendment/correction. You will notice it has been used twice on p.49 of 49., firstly to eliminate the (E) after CAPT., then to correct the unit from 7th Trg Sqn AFC to 3rd Sqn AFC.

Later on, the RAAF adopted the practice of allocating service numbers to all personnel.

See: https://www.awm.gov.au/collection/R2018817

Col.

[vrajm]

Thank you very much for the explanation, Col. A lot of numbers...

Mojmir