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Thread: RAF Senior Officers during WW2 - Service Numbers needed

  1. #11
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    Default Re: RAF Senior Officers during WW2 - Service Numbers needed

    I am up to C on the Perm Commission List - I will work at it peace meal

    Paul

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    Default Re: RAF Senior Officers during WW2 - Service Numbers needed

    09065 Boswell Kenneth Lenton S/L 1/1/36

    Sent Jagan a copy of my RAF Gradation spreadsheet containing almost 19,000 individuals gleaned from AFL

    Ross
    Last edited by Ross_McNeill; 20th November 2020 at 17:53.
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    Default Re: RAF Senior Officers during WW2 - Service Numbers needed

    Last edited by vrajm; 20th November 2020 at 19:01.

  4. #14
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    Default Re: RAF Senior Officers during WW2 - Service Numbers needed

    Be interesting if anybody discovers a pattern to the eventual late allocation of Service Numbers to some of Air Rank, but I must admit that whilst transcribing from Malcolm's RAFWEB one was not immediately apparent?
    HTH
    Peter Davies
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    We might not know - but we might know who does!

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    Default Re: RAF Senior Officers during WW2 - Service Numbers needed

    A large sample is needed to divine pattern.

    As stated RAF Commissioned Personal Numbers were not initially listed in Gazette pre war - however Manning had started a system on 1st April 1918 for both Commissioned and ORs.

    For commissioned any officer transferred on formation already had a seniority from the arm of service they had served in and the RAF manning roughly followed descending rank, seniority within rank and alphabetic surname.

    Equivalence of rank also had to be applied between RNAS and RFC so these were also intermingled.

    Finally for those with seniority pre RFC it also depended on British Army Order of Precedence - not all regiments are equal!
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Britis..._of_precedence

    Gaps also appear where the officer numbered by RAF Manning chose not to remain in RAF service April 1919 and returned to the previous Arm of Service.

    S/Ldr rank on formation 1/4/1918 is the first rank where the RAF Manning number system starts to become predictive.

    01201 Marix R L G Reginald Lennox George
    01194 Long S G Samuel Godfrey

    01193 Lister T V Thomas Vaughan

    01191 Levick A Albert


    01185 Laws F C V Frederick Charles Victor
    01183 Wells J K John Kilner

    01163 Hamilton B H N H Benjamin Henry Noel Hans
    01155 Gaskell-Blackburn V Vivian


    01150 Faithfull G F H George Ferdinand Hay
    01148 England T H Tom Harry

    01147 Elsdon T W Thomas Wilfrid

    01145 de Roeper B P H Bruno Philip Henry
    01144 De Courcy J A G John Arthur Gerald
    01140 Currie A J Alfred James

    01138 Crosbie D S K Dudley Stuart Kays
    01136 Corballis E R L Edward Roux Littledale
    01133 Cooke G G H Gilbert George Herbert
    01129 Butler A J Albert James

    01127 Burchall P R Percival Russell

    01126 Bullen T F Thomas Francis

    01124 Brown V S Vernon Sydney

    01122 Breese G F George Frederick

    01114 Archer J O John Oliver

    01113 ap Ellis A Augustine


    01112 Allen D L Dermott Lang

    01111 Wynn A H W E Alfred Hearst Wynn Elias
    01110 Wise P K Percival Kinnear

    01109 Williamson H A Hugh Alexander

    01098 Ranken F Francis


    01079 Grant-Dalton S Stuart


    01071 Fletcher J N John Norman

    01059 Cave-Browne-Cave T R Thomas Reginald

    01042 Blackburn H Harold


    01026 Groves P R C Percy Robert Clifford
    00855 Preston W G Walter George

    00051 Breese C D Charles Dempster


    Ross
    Last edited by Ross_McNeill; 21st November 2020 at 12:23.
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    Default Re: RAF Senior Officers during WW2 - Service Numbers needed

    Moving to 1920 is the next disrupter for just taking AFL/Gazette entry as Acting P/O, P/O, F/O and assigning Personal Number as a block to the alphabetic surname list.

    Cranwell Flight Cadets were assigned an out of general sequence Personal Number following their alphabetic surname.

    On passing out 2 years later they were gazetted in seniority F/O and retained their Cranwell sequence personal number.

    As the Cranwell graduates were destined for permanent Commission rather than the Short Service of other entry they statistically form the more senior ranks, including Air Rank for 1939 to 45 service.

    This can seem to cause the jumble of Personal Numbers for a given rank Seniority list.

    Ross
    Last edited by Ross_McNeill; 21st November 2020 at 12:40.
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    Default Re: RAF Senior Officers during WW2 - Service Numbers needed

    Ross,
    Very many thanks for taking the time to explain what was going on.
    At the levels of my RAF career(s) it often seemed that ”They” were using Random Numbers and/or “Making It Up As ‘They’ Went Along”!!!!
    I appreciate your comment about Army Regt precedences! It could be a nightmare night-stopping in a Mess with a large (varied) Army presence. It was “bad form” to query why some regimental officers were wearing their hats backwards on alternate Thursdays. I jest, but you get my meaning?!!
    Many thanks for the tutorial. It makes things easier to understand!
    Peter Davies
    Meteorology is a science; good meteorology is an art!
    We might not know - but we might know who does!

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    Default Re: RAF Senior Officers during WW2 - Service Numbers needed

    The Officer Mess Senior Steward for the Harrier Trials group Battle of Britain Dining Night method of precedence to the various Navy, Army RAF and Luftwaffe guests was a simple command:

    Winners to the left - Losers to the right

    Set the tone for the night as one of the Luftwaffe Officers had just rolled a trial aircraft into a ball during hover transition - he asked if he could enter it into his log (continued from 1945 on reformation) as his xth Allied Kill.

    Ross
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    Default Re: RAF Senior Officers during WW2 - Service Numbers needed

    Re: Wrigley's B2455:

    Wrigley, Henry Neilson : SERN Captain 3734

    Ref:

    (p 49/49)

    During the 1914/18 war, Australian Army Officers were not allocated Service/Regimental numbers (nor were Officers of the AFC).

    The reference you see on page 49 of 49 (C3734), refers to the person who has made an amendment/correction to the record. It his identifying mark, so he could be identified/questioned later on as to why he made the amendment/correction. You will notice it has been used twice on p.49 of 49., firstly to eliminate the (E) after CAPT., then to correct the unit from 7th Trg Sqn AFC to 3rd Sqn AFC.

    Later on, the RAAF adopted the practice of allocating service numbers to all personnel.

    See: https://www.awm.gov.au/collection/R2018817

    Col.
    Last edited by COL BRUGGY; 21st November 2020 at 16:38.

  10. The Following User Says Thank You to COL BRUGGY For This Useful Post:

    vrajm (22nd November 2020)

  11. #20
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    Default Re: RAF Senior Officers during WW2 - Service Numbers needed

    Thank you very much for the explanation, Col. A lot of numbers...

    Mojmir

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