Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 26

Thread: WW2 RAF Training: Leslie Raymond White

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Nov 2020
    Posts
    9
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts

    Default WW2 RAF Training: Leslie Raymond White

    I am researching my relative, Leslie Raymond White, who flew Hurricanes operationally with 134 Squadron and I was hoping someone may be able to help with questions I have relating to his pre-operational training. The relevant information from his Form 543 is given below followed by my questions:

    Enlisted 23rd January 1941.
    Movement to 5 Bombing and Gunnery School (5B&GS), 7th March 1941
    Movement to 11 Flight Training School (11 FTS), 22nd May 1941
    Movement to 11 Initial Training Wing (11 ITW), 14th June 1941
    Movement to 5 Service Flight Training School (5SFTS), 20th November 1941
    Movement to 56 Operational Training Unit (56OTU), 5th May 1942
    Following further training/postings in North Africa he arrived at 134 Squadron on 27th January 1943 and flew with them until mid 1944

    My questions are:

    - Why would a fighter pilot have been sent first to a Bombing and Gunnery school (5B&GS)?
    - The movement reason for going to 5B&GS was 'k' (or conceivably a 'slash' with a lower case r joined underneath). Does anyone know what this letter/symbol might mean?
    - Why would he have been sent to an Initial Training Wing (11 ITW) for, I assume, 'square bashing' etc after he had been to Flight Training School (II FTS)? Wouldn't it have normally been the other way round?

    I have corresponded with the RAF re the above; they were helpful but couldn't answer these points and so I would be grateful if anyone could provide their insights or opinions.

    Best Regards

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Hornsea, East Yorkshire, UK
    Posts
    4,125
    Thanks
    4
    Thanked 110 Times in 108 Posts

    Default Re: WW2 RAF Training: Leslie Raymond White

    Hi Martin

    To answer some of your questions more information from the F543 is needed: -

    What are is posting before No 5 B&GS?
    What are his musterings and dates?

    FTS is Flying Training School not Flight Training School and in 1941 should have been referred to as a Service Flying Training School.

    Malcolm

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Horsens, Denmark
    Posts
    494
    Thanks
    4
    Thanked 5 Times in 5 Posts

    Default Re: WW2 RAF Training: Leslie Raymond White

    He left 134 Squadron on August 14th 1944. Then joined 1567 Flight on November 18th, attached to 1412 Flight on November 24th and returned to 1567 Flight on March 1st 1945.

    John Engelsted

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Posts
    424
    Thanks
    1
    Thanked 45 Times in 45 Posts

    Default Re: WW2 RAF Training: Leslie Raymond White

    Martin
    Perhaps 11 EFTS (Elementary Flying Training) Perth (Scone)

    A posting to an ITW would likely be a 'holding' posting whilst a place at an SFTS came up,same possibly for 5B&GS.
    In the armed forces one has to be posted 'somewhere' to be able to be paid and be kept 'busy'

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Nov 2020
    Posts
    9
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts

    Default Re: WW2 RAF Training: Leslie Raymond White

    Malcom,

    Thanks for your reply.

    To answer your questions, from his 543, there were only two unit entries prior to 5B&GS - 1RC Uxbridge (23/1/41) and 9 RC (no associated date).

    Under Mustering it has (in this order):

    Authy. C Form: On entry - ACH/PILOT, 23/1/41

    Authy. C Form 79/42 - Pilot (25/4/42)

    Authy. C. Form 59/41 - After two blank lines, what looks like U/T Pilot (and what looks like 19/8/46, superscripted above that).

    Apologies in advance if I have misunderstood your questions but if you need more information don't hesitate to ask.

    Best Regards

    Martin

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Nov 2020
    Posts
    9
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts

    Default Re: WW2 RAF Training: Leslie Raymond White

    John,

    Thanks for your reply. He did some fighter affiliation work towards the end of his time with 134 but did not convert to Thunderbolts. As you say he went to a meteorological squadron and subsequently back to the UK.

    Best Regards

    Martin

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Wiltshire
    Posts
    2,656
    Thanks
    1
    Thanked 12 Times in 11 Posts

    Default Re: WW2 RAF Training: Leslie Raymond White

    Martin

    Further to JohnE's post (#3), I think the units to which he refers are actually 1412 Meteorological Flight and 1567 Meteorological Flight, not Squadrons. The former was based at Khartoum, and the latter at El Geneina, both in Sudan. Both units were established with four Hurricanes, and made twice daily ascents to about 24000 ft recording meteorological information.

    Brian

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Nov 2020
    Posts
    9
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts

    Default Re: WW2 RAF Training: Leslie Raymond White

    Thanks for your reply. Is there any way of distinguishing a holding posting from a real one?

    I must admit that I thought he had attended 11 FTS in Shawbury as there was an entry against 'Cas. Form confirming Arrival (67/41)' on his 543. However, I had a look at the records for 11 Flying Training School (the title given for the Ops Record Book (to Malcom's point given as 11 S.F.T.S. on the actual pages)) on a visit to Kew and the majority of aircraft mentioned are Oxfords which seems incongruous w.r.t. fighter pilot training) and so perhaps you are correct.

    Best Regards

    Martin

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Nov 2020
    Posts
    9
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts

    Default Re: WW2 RAF Training: Leslie Raymond White

    Thanks,

    My mistake re terminology. I have the 1412 Flight records from Kew and can confirm he was flying with them (on attachment from 1567 Flight). Hopefully, meteorological work must have been more relaxing than flying ops over Burma.

    Best Regards

    Martin

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Hornsea, East Yorkshire, UK
    Posts
    4,125
    Thanks
    4
    Thanked 110 Times in 108 Posts

    Default Re: WW2 RAF Training: Leslie Raymond White

    Hi

    5 BGS was probably a holding post as has been suggested.

    If it was 11 EFTS, this could have been for grading purposes before going to 11 ITW for ground school then to 5 SFTS for training.

    Malcolm

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •