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Thread: Fateful flight around the Horn

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    Default Fateful flight around the Horn

    Just before the fateful Lerwick crash at Helensburgh the pilot Flt Lt Alexander flew Sunderland W3967, Around the same time at Helensburgh Sqd Ldr Grosbie flew Short Class X8273 Golden Horn. Biographic details of these two chaps appreciated.

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    Default Re: Fateful flight around the Horn

    Robin

    Can you check the Sunderland serial. Isn't W3967 a Spitfire...?

    http://www.rafcommands.com/database/...php?uniq=W3967

    Regards

    Simon
    Researching R.A.F. personnel from the North East of England

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    Default Re: Fateful flight around the Horn

    Typo for

    Short Sunderland Mark II W3976. Rochester built. Loss 28 Nov 1941 recorded here
    http://www.rafcommands.com/database/...hp?qname=W3976

    F/Lt Alexander needs some more detail, at least inits, to winnow from the crowd per 1941 Air Force List (almost a whole column in Nov 1941 ) or Gazette .

    S/Ldr Grosbie, if correct and not Crosbie, may be easier to spot but he's not in the Mar 1939 AFL.

    I must say, searching for an Air Force List by year 1941 leads direct to the Nat Library Scotland site AFL 1941 set, where I found their browser infinitely easier to id by relevant volume and to riffle pages vs the Internet Archive viewer.

    Nov 1941 AFL shows no Grosbie at all
    https://digital.nls.uk/british-milit...chive/96171146

    Of Crosbies, in Nov 1941, there are just 5 to choose from
    the most likely being...
    S/Ldr JL Crosbie 33134, 1 Jun 1940 seniority
    See https://digital.nls.uk/british-milit...chive/96170222
    Try tracing him in the Gazette by service no and also by inits +/or first names for the pre 1940 entries, likely back into the 1930s.

    As a Marine Aircraft Experimental Establishment aircraft, the unit ORB at TNA AIR 29/1568 has relevance although AIR 29 remains undigitised and apparently for the wrong period, depending on how you look it up and seems to be the only ref.

    Sources
    HMSO Air Force List Mar 1939
    Norris The Short Sunderland Profile Publications No 189 (PP 1967)
    NLS Archive Air Force Lists at https://digital.nls.uk/british-milit...chive/93506069

    Addendum
    Everyone else may be having a chuckle at the above but some more detail on Alexander might've helped (though on a better day the Lerwick hint might've focussed the mind's eye)
    See previous thread
    21 October 1941 loss of prototype Saunders Roe A.36 Lerwick L7248 of MAEE,
    pilot F/Lt (Pilot) John C. ALEXANDER 33456 MiD
    and detailed links therein: http://www.rafcommands.com/forum/sho...-Accident-1941

    Also RAF Cmds db per header search box this page
    L7248 http://www.rafcommands.com/database/...p?qname=L7248+
    and check the crew list for Alexander Gazette links.
    No bio details in CWGC entry - suggest Free BMD.

    As the MAEE is your particular interest and given what scant detail there is in your unsourced post, presumably AIR 29/1568 was in fact the source.


    Over and out.
    Last edited by Don Clark; 30th December 2020 at 21:42.
    Toujours propos

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    Default Re: Fateful flight around the Horn

    thanks gentlemen My source for my post is the the log of MAEE engineering officer Peter Knight 1941-45, written in his hand at the time. The Sunderland serial number is a typo error. It could be Crosbie, Knight's pencil notes have faded a little. So happy to trace Crosbie, as it is clearly ie, if you can help?
    Last edited by robin bird; 30th December 2020 at 17:59.

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    Default Re: Fateful flight around the Horn

    With respect, I find your post a little hard to understand.

    My reply above includes enough detail, of names & service nos and of links to follow to the usual online sources (London Gazette, Free BMD, AFLs), where some searching on your own account will find what Service etc info is easily available at no charge.

    Is there some technical or physical difficulty that prevents you using them?
    Last edited by Don Clark; 30th December 2020 at 21:18.
    Toujours propos

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    Default Re: Fateful flight around the Horn

    Don appreciate your links which I am following up. Just trying to put flesh of the bones, i,e, education, marriage, later life etc

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    Default Re: Fateful flight around the Horn

    Thank you.

    On Crosbie, the March 1939 Air Force List records him as
    General Duties Branch: Flight Lieutenant John Leslie Crosbie 15 June 1938 (col 1101)
    and as posted to
    Marine Aircraft Experimental Establishment
    Flight Lieut JL Crosbie 10 Nov 38 (col 907)

    Then there's web search by whatever engine takes your fancy. So eg

    Crosbie 33134

    Finds among member Malcolm Barrass' fine www.RAFweb.org site members' area Cranwell grad lists

    1934
    "John Leslie CROSBIE (33134) OBE
    He entered the RAF College in 1933, was a member of C Sqn and attained the rank of Flt Cdt Sgt. He also represented the college in Tennis and Hockey.
    He was commissioned on 15 Dec 1934 in the rank of Pilot Officer which was gazetted on 22 Jan 1935. He retired on 31 Jul 1964 in the rank of Gp Capt.
    He was a graduate of NATO Defence College and the RAF Staff College."

    And likewise for Alexander 33456: there's an entry in Malcolm's 1939 Cranwell list.

    As you'd expect, several mentions in each arise from LG search as noted previously.

    Internet search on full names can also be fruitful
    John Leslie Crosbie eg gets
    http://www.thepeerage.com/p37665.htm#c376648 and scroll down.

    The London Gazette was u/s with 504 Bad Gateway earlier this am but has resumed since.

    I'll leave you with it.
    Last edited by Don Clark; 30th December 2020 at 21:55.
    Toujours propos

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    Default Re: Fateful flight around the Horn

    Thanks Don and everyone. Through RAF Commands I have traced many former MAEE names and been able to write stories on their careers for Helensburgh Heritage Trust. As a result relatives of deceased have learned of their past. My MAEE interest is inspired by the memory of my father, the MAEE photographer, and we now have a memorial to MAEE at Rhu, Helensburgh.

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