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Thread: Bristol Blenheim anomalies

  1. #31
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    Default Re: Bristol Blenheim anomalies

    L1166 - I have 3 separate 30 Sqn logbooks all stating this A/C crash landed on a beach in Greece on the night of 21st November 1940 due to "BLOODY AWFUL WEATHER, COMPASS & WIRELESS U/S, RAN OUT OF FUEL"

    Regards,
    Simon

  2. #32
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    Default Re: Bristol Blenheim anomalies

    Simon,
    Thanks for your 30 Sqn input.

    Jagan, I cross-checked your useful list of SEAC Blenheim losses and offer the following comments:
    20 Aug 41 L1352 – two dates given for loss in main db: 20 Aug 41 and 1 Sep39 (latter correct?)
    25 Jan 42 V5782 – serial does not exist
    27 Jan 42 Z7012 – serial does not exist, it was V6012
    14 Mar 42 V7899 – serial does not exist, it was Z7899
    29 Jun 42 L9397 – this was lost with 235 Sqn on 29 May 40. I believe this 34 Sqn loss was L9307
    30 Aug 42 Z7943 – serial does not exist, it was Z9743
    28 Oct 42 L7756 – serial does not exist for Blenheim, it was Z7756
    20 Jul 43 BA964 – serial does not exist, entry needs merging with that for BA864 on the same date.
    24 Dec 43 Z7976 or Z7997 – Z7997 does not exist, it was Z7976

    Regards,
    Andy

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    Jagan (13th February 2021)

  4. #33
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    Default Re: Bristol Blenheim anomalies

    Another interesting aircraft is L6662.
    Air Britain serials record this as 113/204/84, crashed on take-off Paramythia 18.2.41
    However, both Warner (P439) and Cull "Blenheims over Greece and Malta" (P190) attribute the loss to 211 Sqn.
    Don Clark casts serious doubt on it being a 211 Sqn machine:
    http://www.211squadron.org/bristol_blenheim_i.html
    The strange thing is that there is a photo in the middle of Cull's book, showing L6662 being inspected by German soldiers (it was abandoned at Paramthyia). It is clearly coded VA-C, ie 84 Sqn....

  5. #34
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    Default Re: Bristol Blenheim anomalies

    Some more items for discussion. Firstly queries relating to the db:
    L8501 – loss date given as 10 Jan 41 with 84 Sqn, but was operating with 211 Sqn in Apr41 according to both Cull and http://www.211squadron.org/bristol_blenheim_i.html
    T2348 – loss date given as 19 Apr 41, but quoted file AIR 81/5988 at https://discovery.nationalarchives.g...ls/r/C16755286 says 18 Apr 41, which is agree by Cull

    Other queries:
    L1388 – db says lost with 84 Sqn 2 May 41. Cull says “lost in Greece” with date 30 May 41. I was under the impression that this one force-landed at Neopolis on 30 Mar 41, and was then captured and flown by the Italians. There are photos of it in Athens in May 41, coded VA-W.
    L8461 – Air Britain serials says lost with 113 Sqn 19 Nov 40. Out database has a “headline date” of 1 Apr 41 with 113 Sqn, but links to the death of three 45 Sqn on 30 Sep 40. I have L6665 as the 45 Sqn loss on 30 Sep 40. Meanwhile, Cull says L8461 was “lost in Greece” May41.
    T2248 – Warner says lost at sea May 41, Cull says lost with 113 Sqn in Greece May 41.
    11 Sqn – photos taken by Germans/Italians show YH-K, YH-L, YH-R all abandoned in Greece and Crete. Have their identities ever been established? Candidates presumably include N3560, T2341, T2342, Z5769, Z5885.

    What happened to these aircraft?:
    L4918 – last known with 152 OTU. No strike date listed in Air Britain serials
    L8443 – SOC 20 May 42, last known with 211 Sqn according to Air Britain serials (but not on 211 Sqn website). Listed by Cull as operating with 30 Sqn on 25 Jan 41 (damaged in combat)
    T1823 – SOC 27 Jul 44, last known with 113 Sqn

  6. #35
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    Default Re: Bristol Blenheim anomalies

    Quote Originally Posted by Andy Marden View Post
    25 Jan 42 V5782 – serial does not exist

    Thanks Andy - Most of the corrections made in my sheets (will be uploaded online sometime) - the above loss seems to be linked to AIR81/12297 which states Blenheim 5872 i.e V5872. This is reflecting correctly in the CWGC DB, but incorrectly in the SEAC Losses.

  7. #36
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    Default Re: Bristol Blenheim anomalies

    Andy,

    L8443 - AIR81/4933 has the crew as P/O Carter, Sgt's Akeroyd and Stammers - A/C hit by enemy anti aircraft fire - 30 Squadron - 25 January 1941

    This A/C was part of a bombing raid on an Italian Camp & Depot at Boultsar (not sure on spelling). They encountered light and accurate A.A fire and were also attacked by Italian fighters (6 G50's & 10 CR42's according to one logbook entry) - Two A/C were hit and damaged.

    Akeroyd was injured and received a DFM for his actions. The DFM (as per LG) states Akeroyd's injuries were caused by the air attacks and not the A/A Fire.

    Regards,
    Simon

  8. #37
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    Default Re: Bristol Blenheim anomalies

    Simon,
    Thanks. I note there is another TNA entry (AIR 81/7214) for this aircraft, suggesting it was involved in an incident with 211 Sqn on 27 Jun 41:
    https://discovery.nationalarchives.g...ls/r/C16756511
    Perhaps Don Clark could comment on this? It does not seem to be mentioned at http://www.211squadron.org/bristol_blenheim_iv__.html
    Regards,
    Andy

  9. #38
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    Default Re: Bristol Blenheim anomalies

    Above Blenheim I notes referring to 211 Squadron aircraft and my site...

    L8443
    Noted now twice above as "not found". Not so.
    The aircraft is a Mark I and listed more than once, on more than one page, as has been so for many years.
    [Ctrl f] L8443 will find it: not on the Mark IV page - on the Mark I page.
    or, for all instances
    L8443 site:www.211squadron.org

    Added to the simple serial entry for June 41, in the first mention on my Blenheim I page,
    by replicating the long standing note in my father's account for 5 Jun.

    Other current/recent 211 Sqn Blenheim I page notes

    K7098
    Mention with a little loss detail for some years, now amplified wrt 30
    Sqn service, then 211 Sqn at Wadi Gazouza.

    K7105
    Mentioned briefly as serial only for some years. Now amplified with
    respect to ROS belly-landing damage at Wadi Gazouza 1941 with service
    history (Halley) and possible illustration (via aircrew).

    L8501
    Shown, and correctly, for a good many years for 1941 or April 1941
    if only by serial on my Blenheim I page, more fully in my father's notes.

    These I have re-checked/confirmed to source/s and
    have now added some additional notes on my Blenheim I page.

    L6662
    "serious doubt":
    Little to no doubt, given the 84 Sqn record, not a 211 Squadron
    aircraft. Blenheim I page entry as first made 2016.

    On searching 211 Squadron site
    It may help searching for Blenheim Is of 1939 to 1941 to refer not only to
    http://www.211squadron.org/bristol_blenheim_i.html
    but also
    http://www.211squadron.org/1939.html
    http://www.211squadron.org/1940.html
    http://www.211squadron.org/1941.html
    and
    http://www.211squadron.org/cfr_clark.html
    Or, for completion, a site-specific search eg
    L8501 site:www.211squadron.org
    or
    site:www.211squadron.org L8501
    in any search engine of merit.


    Notes

    All serials above rechecked as above in Bing, Duck Duck Go, One Search, via Edge, via Firefox
    and also by [Ctrl f] each, via Firefox.

    Note that in a [Ctrl f] search on any page, allowing a trailing space
    to get added to the serial may result in incomplete results.

    Noting that any airman's Flying Log Book is as liable as an Operations Record Book to some risk of
    error or error, and that there may still be error, inconsistency or omission in my own work.

    Note also known imperfect/incomplete a/craft records of movement vs actual usage/movement among Sqns in theatre.

    Mark IV aircraft for ref:
    http://www.211squadron.org/bristol_blenheim_iv__.html
    http://www.211squadron.org/1941.html
    http://www.211squadron.org/1942.html
    And again, a site-specific search will find identities, eg incl in other pages.


    Don Clark
    www.211squadron.org
    Last edited by Don Clark; 16th February 2021 at 02:47. Reason: 1939 & Mk IV etc
    Toujours à propos

  10. #39
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    Default Re: Bristol Blenheim anomalies

    Don,
    Thanks for the comprehensive reply, and apologies for my mistake in only looking on the Mk.IV page with regard to L8443.
    Regarding L8501, I see that Air Britain serials list the last operating unit as 113 Sqn. Does anyone have a F.78 or similar which might tell us this aircraft's final fate?
    Andy

  11. #40
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    Default Re: Bristol Blenheim anomalies

    Looking for a candidate for Z7750 AIR81/9140 - But Z7750 was not issued.


    On the same day P4840 was also lost AIR81/9147


    Bomber Losses - Middle East/Med (Gunby/Temple) confirms the two losses and two numbers but the crews are interchanged in it.. So I went with AIR81 references. But Z7750 needs to be fixed. Candidate proposed for this Z7780 ? Any trace?

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