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Thread: Bristol Blenheim anomalies

  1. #61
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    Default Re: Bristol Blenheim anomalies

    Tidying up an old query in this thread:

    L8731 – this was lost with 64 Sqn on 8 Nov 39, as per http://discovery.nationalarchives.go...ls/r/C16359680 But Warner also quotes this serial as being lost with 12 (P) AFU on 19 Feb 44. Which aircraft was this?

    The aircraft lost with 12 (P) AFU on 19 Feb 44 was L8371

  2. #62
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    Default Re: Bristol Blenheim anomalies

    Looking at the serial batch N6140/N6242, three aircraft caught my eye. Referring to the Air-Britain serials book:

    N6155 114/West Raynham/114/Wyton SOC 4.4.40 - so apparently two "station" postings
    N6171 59 SOC 11.1.40
    N6181 107/35/101/13 OTU SOC 3.10.40

    So all three were struck in 1940, much earlier than would be expected for a time-expired aircraft.
    Does anyone know what actually happened to any of them please? Presumably they were all involved in an incident of some sort.

  3. #63
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    Default Re: Bristol Blenheim anomalies

    Good evening Martin,
    Impeccable piece of research tracing P9651! Thank you for all your hard work. Been bugging me that it wasn’t L9351 too.
    Found remains of her in October 2020. As detailed by others, she has come down in the commune or parish of Védrines Saint Loup, Cantal, France. First, striking the forest canopy rather hard, before continuing another 200m in flight, ending up semi inverted in a shallow peat bog in a ravine. This is my first post on this forum so can't upload photos via a URL as they aren't published on the web, but have a couple showing P9651 scrawled in handwritten pencil on a piece of wreckage. Would appreciated if we can somehow communicate by email & exchange information perhaps, please?
    Thanks again,
    Martin Redding

  4. #64
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    Default Re: Bristol Blenheim anomalies

    A set of 3 photos currently for sale on ebay:
    https://www.ebay.de/itm/134148279203...8AAOSw~~Riqw94
    is stamped as showing L6670/UQ-R of 211 Sqn
    Don Clark's ever helpful site at: http://www.211squadron.org/bristol_blenheim_i.html
    confirms that L6670 was indeed UQ-R, and records that it made a wheels-up landing at Menidi (Greece) on 15 Dec 40, after which it did not feature in the ORB again.
    According to the relevant Air-Britain serials book, L6670 was passed on to the Hellenic Air Force on 1 Apr 41.
    The problem is that these photos do not look like they were taken in Greece to me, and the seller indicates a shoot-down by the Afrika Korps.
    So which aircraft was this?

  5. The Following User Says Thank You to Andy Marden For This Useful Post:

    Don Clark (17th June 2022)

  6. #65
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    Default Re: Bristol Blenheim anomalies

    The main image is plainly in North Africa/Western Desert, Blenheim I UQ-R 211 Sqn, and shows a wheels-up
    forced-landing with airframe fairly intact but Stbd wing + engine gone.

    The later images don't sit well with that state and may be later destruction.
    See https://www.ebay.de/itm/134148279203

    The Seller has in ignorance assumed that a UQ-R must be L6670. And has
    apparently suggested (if not as I read the listing) an Afrika Korps shootdown.
    The Korps was not active in North Africa until Feb 1941 but 211 Sqn had left the desert
    early Nov 1940 prior to move to Greece.

    It is plainly a UQ-R, but which?

    211 Sqn Losses May Nov 1940 with known a/craft letter
    The nice forced-landing looks as good as
    L1491 UQ-S (Garrad-Cole & co 15 Jul 40)
    Photo evidence shows L1491 as UQ-S.
    No further detail in ORB or in G-Cs Ticket to Rome

    Likewise as good as
    L8376 UQ-D The Porpoise (Bax & co 4 Sep 40)
    Available photos seem to confirm, and besides show differing a/c letter placement to the eBay image.
    Bax also had a beaut painting of the encounter as clearly UQ-D. No further detail in ORB or his Log Book.

    211 Sqn Losses with no known a/craft letter
    L1486 UQ (Collier & Thomas 13 Mar 40) heavily damaged night landing Daba. No a/craft
    letter at all seen in Hoyes side-on image. Besides, Grierson photo shows the wrecked airframe
    remains later up on u/cart (!) for RSU salvage.

    L1537, DBR by Garrad-Cole on the same night ex as Collier, Daba.
    No a/c letter known. No photo known.

    L8523 "The Bish" (Gordon-Finlayson) & co 25 Sep 40, returning from a Tobruk raid, forced-landing near El Qasaba (between Mersa Matruh and Daba), Stbd engine fire,
    DBR, no casualties, no a/c letter known, no photo known. GF had a lot of sorties and adventures in L8523 as CO but did not record a/craft letters in Log Book.

    L6660 Sgt Hutt & co 17 Sep 1940 DBR night landing on return from night raid. No casualties!
    No a/c letter known. Discounted, as the a/craft state seen in Grierson images was very different to that shown for UQ-R:
    L6660 had no apparent 211 Sqn markings (unit code or a/craft letter) vs UQ-R very clear markings, plus undercarriage down but Stbd leg lost during multiple impacts (& long left lying akimbo in situ on site).

    Cannot spot another 211 Sqn loss of this sort May to Nov 1940, in records and images to hand nor Gunby & Temple Bomber Losses Middle East & Med Vol I.
    In any event, definitely not L6670.
    Original loss North Africa c1940 and not due Afrika Korps.
    Missing parts possibly prior RSU attentions?
    Other damage later shoot up per courtesy 1941 Afrika Korps ground shoot up?
    On balance, L8523 *may* be the correct id or, less likely, may be L1537. Not likely: L6660.


    Sources:
    211 Squadron ORB
    Personal accounts, Log Books and photos, 211 Sqn aircrew, www.211squadron.org

    Postscript
    Belated thanks to Andy Marden for his kind words re my 211 Squadron website, appreciated.
    L6660: Added & discounted as above.
    L8523: Very faint hint in eBay UQ-R image of partial serial ending in ?3, maybe 23. Hints again at L8523 as possible id.

    Your collective pardon for multiple edits as noted
    Last edited by Don Clark; 17th June 2022 at 03:43.
    Toujours à propos

  7. #66
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    Default Re: Bristol Blenheim anomalies

    Don,
    Thanks for the comprehensive notes. Hopefully one day some more photos will emerge - it's amazing how many "new" images keep turning up on ebay!
    Andy

  8. #67
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    Default Re: Bristol Blenheim anomalies

    Hello Martin Redding/'Wizard Prang' re. post #63

    I only noticed your post yesterday, apologies for the delay in responding.
    As you have only one post so far you may not be able to use the Private Messages method to contact me. If you still wish to, try me at
    mandkgleeson7 AT gmail ETC.

    Regards,

    Martin Gleeson.

  9. #68
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    Default UQ-R "L6670" image for sale...

    Further to my notes at #65 above, I saw the UQ-R "L6670" imageset discussed elsewhere recently.
    That lead me to recheck my sources, images and notes above.

    Absent any fresh, firm information, from the evidence already available from 211 Squadron sources and images,
    I conclude as before, that the most likely candidate seems to be, as noted above, L8523, in part from the image for sale.
    The faint partial serial seen there with some enhancing seems to end in 3, perhaps 23.
    The serial is quite faint and very weathered cf the usual black letters - while noting all the markings paint is also very weathered.

    The image does not show L6670.
    Nor, as explained above, is it likely to be L6660.


    Don Clark
    www.211squadron.org
    Last edited by Don Clark; 27th June 2022 at 22:38.
    Toujours à propos

  10. #69
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    Default Re: UQ-R "L6670" image for sale...

    Further to my amplification above: somehow I thought it might be seen as impolite to include a link to another external board thread.
    Too fussy, perhaps, on my part as I see another current post here with just such a link.

    As the board in question appears to be closed to new members, herewith is the post about the UQ-R "L6670" image for sale...
    It's from Alex Smart, long-time member here.
    http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/showpo...04&postcount=7
    Alex speculated that the image is of L6660, for the reasons he explained there.
    Another poster expressed some doubt in a couple of follow-up posts (after which the thread moved to an extended detailed discussion of Finnish Blenheim ids.)

    As I disagree with Alex's UQ-R conclusion I hope my detailed case at post 65 above, for L8523 as most likely candidate, is of some interest.

    Postscript
    The image set sold to a bidder for 25.99 Euro +pp in the end.
    Last edited by Don Clark; 10th July 2022 at 00:45.
    Toujours à propos

  11. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Don Clark For This Useful Post:

    Alex Smart (10th July 2022),Andy Marden (10th July 2022)

  12. #70
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    Default Re: UQ-R "L6670" image for sale...

    Hello,

    I have today taken a closer look at the photo that supposedly shows UQ - R, L6670.
    I now see that the two possible numbers that can just be seen in the photo do indeed look to be "23 ".

    So I would now agree that the UQ⊙R shown in the photo is not L6660 or L6670.
    It is then most likely to show as Don says, L8523 .

    Well done Don, your perseverance has shown to bring about a positive result.


    https://www.ebay.de/itm/134148279203

    I would just like to bring to notice that behind the lorry a building can be seen. Could this be therefore a landing within the vicinity of the airbase ?


    Alex
    Last edited by Alex Smart; 10th July 2022 at 14:40.

  13. The Following User Says Thank You to Alex Smart For This Useful Post:

    Don Clark (10th July 2022)

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