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Thread: Lost Aircrew Goodwin Sands area East Kent UK

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    Default Lost Aircrew Goodwin Sands area East Kent UK

    I am a Trustee of Goodwin Sands Conservation Trust and a campaign coordinator for Goodwin Sands SOS. We are trying to locate relatives of the many MIA pilots & crews lost in the area of the Goodwins during WW2.
    We have been trying to stop Dover Harbour Board from dredging the Goodwins, they are regenerating the port of Dover, for which they need landfill and have targeted the Sands as their cheapest option. There are many reasons for opposing the dredging but the one that upsets us greatly is the potential desecration of the final resting places of the brave airmen from the Battle of Britain and other RAF pilots & crews from the conflict who died, fighting for their country. Direct approaches from some families have given us the idea of reaching out to see if we could find more relatives of these missing aircrew.

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    Default Re: Lost Aircrew Goodwin Sands area East Kent UK

    potential desecration of the final resting places of the brave airmen from the Battle of Britain and other RAF pilots & crews from the conflict who died, fighting for their country
    Has any study been made as to how many aircraft have gone down in the area? for the whole war?

    if there is a detailed map/document showing every individual aircraft lost in the area - then it might make a compelling case

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    Default Re: Lost Aircrew Goodwin Sands area East Kent UK

    Fiona (et al),
    It might help if we had the GE co-ordinates of where the (shifting??) Goodwin Sands may have been in the 7 years (1939-1945). Not only "Ours", but also "Theirs" (Do-17-Z2 Ser No 1160 of 7/III/KG3 (5K + AR) lost on 26 August 1940, the height of the Battle of Britain). Those sands hide a vast amount of "stuff". Many of the Members (in their Unit/Type researches) may have info on their databases which could help? I think we can help Fiona (welcome aboard, BTW!!) but she needs to define the parameters.
    The non-Brits may like to know that in most years - at the very lowest tides, when some of the Goodwin Sands are actually exposed - some stout souls play a cricket match thereupon. Play does not last very long. The rising tide makes the pitch unplayable!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    HTH
    Peter Davies
    Last edited by Resmoroh; 4th February 2021 at 15:40.
    Meteorology is a science; good meteorology is an art!
    We might not know - but we might know who does!

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    Default Re: Lost Aircrew Goodwin Sands area East Kent UK

    Another thought, not connected to aircrew, the RAF did use the sands for bombing and rocket practice during the war and in many instances they refer to a wreck being the target. The majority of use was in 1943 and 1944 but I did find a mention in 174 Sqn ORB for 13th April 1942 when it carried out practice bombing. In addition 137 Sqn also carried out firing with their 40mm anti-tank guns and on one occasion with 250lb live bombs. I have no idea which wrecks were used as targets as the RAF fighter bombers were apt to seek them out to shoot up. My search for likely wreck was not helped by the shifting sands and that the wrecks were most likely swallowed up by the sands before the 1946/7 aerial survey was carried out.

    As to the dangers of dredging I have a suspicion that some bombs may have been jettisoned over the sands after an abortive mission. This was common practice as landing with a full load was risky to say the least. I don't know if the sands were within a recognised jettison area but it is worth bearing in mind the possibility. Many unit records record jettisoning over the Channel and some give latitude and longitudes but these were not part of my research so didn't record them.

    Apologies for the waffle but Covid cabin fever is kicking in!

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    Default Re: Lost Aircrew Goodwin Sands area East Kent UK

    Jagan,

    Yes Wessex Arch did a survey and scope document when sea aggregate mining/dredging was cleaning up it's act.

    I was one of the data contributers ( also for the ASR yearly maps that were overlaid Page 166) and party to the final report.

    https://blogs.wessexarch.co.uk/aircr...sea_report.pdf

    (Big pdf)

    The B-24 case study shows what can survive in some circumstances.

    The recommendations/protocol were used on dredging of Thames Gateway when the Ju88 T was recovered. They were kind enough to recognise my initial identification at the end of this abstract.
    https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/...5Z.00000000046

    Ross
    Last edited by Ross_McNeill; 4th February 2021 at 17:12. Reason: Working link to full report
    The Intellectual Property contained in this message has been assigned specifically to this web site.
    Copyright Ross McNeill 2015 to 2021 - All rights reserved.

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    Jagan (4th February 2021)

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    Default Re: Lost Aircrew Goodwin Sands area East Kent UK

    We are working on this Jagan, currently our focus is on the MIA aircrews but we already have a growing list of aircraft downed in the area.

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    Default Re: Lost Aircrew Goodwin Sands area East Kent UK

    I can certainly provide Goodwins coordinates, they shift, as in they are a dynamic system but don't move if that makes sense, or they wouldn't be here! We have had great input from the Kent Battle of Britain Museum. We have tried reaching out to the German authorities, but this has been challenging. Responsibility for actual German aircraft & sites lies with JCCC.

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    Default Re: Lost Aircrew Goodwin Sands area East Kent UK

    Wessex archaeology identified this bomber as a seafloor disturbance https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sWwUOIYcuog - 'our' diver found it and it was in the original dredge zone.....& could have been destroyed by the dredge-head. it is now subject to PoMRA - from its 4 radial engines we have narrowed it down to 1 of 4 aircraft types.

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    Jagan (6th February 2021)

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    Default Re: Lost Aircrew Goodwin Sands area East Kent UK

    Thank you, this is very intersting!

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