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Thread: Poor copy ORB's.

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    Default Poor copy ORB's.

    Morning. I have a very poor copy of an amendment to 424 Sq ORB from Feb 1943 held in Kew. This is not included in the ORB's held in Canada. Is there any other place where a better copy may be held.
    Thanks Richard

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    Default Re: Poor copy ORB's.

    Richard. There was some discussion on missing ORB records at Kew. If I recall correctly, people suggested contacting the Air Historical Branch. It’s a Hail Mary if they have RCAF records. Not sure.

    https://www.raf.mod.uk/our-organisat...orical-branch/

    Jim

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    Default Re: Poor copy ORB's.

    Jim. Will check. Thought a university may also have copies. There were many copies made.
    Richard

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    Default Re: Poor copy ORB's.

    Quote Originally Posted by Richard.K View Post
    Morning. I have a very poor copy of an amendment to 424 Sq ORB from Feb 1943 held in Kew. This is not included in the ORB's held in Canada. Is there any other place where a better copy may be held.
    Thanks Richard
    I thought the RAF Squadron (AHB) copies went to the RAF Museum, Hendon, who put them into storage?

    Looking at my photocopies here when I researched 1940 Ops of particular nights, I also use to get ORB copies at Group, other Group files and at Command level too, including their Appendices and other files, etc., etc., some Squadron information was copied with more or less detail and also retained in their ORBs and files.

    Don't also forget the RAF Station/s ORB where the Sqn was based or flying from and to, on return, (including diversion places) and Appendices too.

    No guarantee in research, but occasionally some additional snippets. For example certain type of aircraft lost due to enemy action, but later Intelligence Summary Files of that night ... zero aircraft of that type lost due to enemy action. Further research indicated the aircraft was later claimed to be on fire in the air and changed to a 'Flying Accident' category which was also confirmed several years later.

    Mark
    Last edited by Mark Hood; 8th September 2021 at 19:19.

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    Default Re: Poor copy ORB's.

    Hi Richard

    Can you tell us anything more about the amendment you refer to? Is it maybe something that we can look at online and perhaps offer suggestions from what we can see?

    Ian

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    Default Re: Poor copy ORB's.

    Hi Ian. Here is the file held at Kew. AIR-27-1834-4. The very last page. Good luck. Sorted one name.
    Richard.

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    Default Re: Poor copy ORB's.

    Richard

    If it's the names you're after, a bit of Photoshopping can make them a bit more legible.

    For example, the first entry on the last spread:

    24th Feb
    Night

    Wellington 'E' [?]

    F/L Taylor F. V. [confirmed from 7th Feb entry]
    F/O ****
    F/L Taylor
    Sgt. Cook
    Sgt. Lees
    F/S Nicholls

    24th Feb
    Night

    Wellington 'Q' [?] HK348 [?]

    F/Sgt. Copenhaver [confirmed from 4th Feb entry]
    Sgt. Jones G.
    Sgt. Buss F. H.
    Sgt. Kennerly [?]
    Sgt. Ferguson [?]
    Sgt. Kucinsky [?]

    You may be able to confirm the names in previous or later Ops.

    Or ask the National Archives if they can rescan or just put up a higher resolution versions of the dodgy pages, which presumably they will have. I've asked them in the past and they're pretty good, but you may have to wait a while in the current circumstances. Best do an 'online chat' thing and refer them to the illegible pages.

    Regards

    Simon
    Researching R.A.F. personnel from the North East of England

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    Default Re: Poor copy ORB's.

    Simon,
    You sure about Copenhaver?
    FREEBMD has no Copenhaver earlier than 1956.
    FMP mostly American Copenhaver’s.
    TNA AIR 78/36/5 got no Copenhaver’s that I can find.
    Something not quite right? Typo?
    Peter Davies
    Meteorology is a science; good meteorology is an art!
    We might not know - but we might know who does!

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    Default Re: Poor copy ORB's.

    Peter

    I'm 99% sure it's F/Sgt Copenhaver - he's Captain on Wellington III Z1692 on the ORB Form 541 entry for February 4th 1943, which is a bit more legible on the pdf file.

    I'd thought he would possibly be Canadian? Or maybe American - related to Lawrence Benjamin Copenhaver D.F.C., maybe...?

    Regards

    Simon
    Researching R.A.F. personnel from the North East of England

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    Default Re: Poor copy ORB's.

    Copenhaver is correct. Went on to fly with 405 Squadron, an American in the RCAF. I have sorted all the pages except the very last page. Can make out Thompson and that is it. An other issue is March 1943, it is missing the amendment pages as they did not include the RTB ops in the record of events.
    Richard

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