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Thread: Grevenbroich bombing February 1st 1945

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    Default Grevenbroich bombing February 1st 1945

    Hi,

    On February 1st 1945 No.38 Group dispatched 30 Stirling Mk.IV on a tactical bombing operation against Grevenbroich. I have conflicting details about who marked the target, GH aircraft of No.2 Group, or aircraft of the 2nd TAF.

    Can anyone clarify.

    TIA

    Chaz

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    Default Re: Grevenbroich bombing February 1st 1945

    3-Group attacked the general town area of Monchengladbach on February 1, 1945 using G-H through 8/10-10/10ths cloud. It appears this was a daylight attack. The 90 Squadron ORB suggests the attack on Monchengladbach was ongoing at 1627 hrs. Monchengladbach is only 13 km from Grevenbroich. However take-off times for 196 Squadron (38-Group) indicated the attacks were not coordinated and there also appear to be two separate take-off times 3 hours apart for aircraft from the Squadron. Interesting!

    Jim
    Last edited by JDCAVE; 26th September 2021 at 19:11.

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    Charles Smith (27th September 2021)

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    Default Re: Grevenbroich bombing February 1st 1945

    Hi Chaz,

    the Tactical Bombing missions carried out by No. 38 Group between 20/21 Jan and 26/27 Feb 1945 were all made at night. Bomber Command did not mark any of the targets, to the best of my knowledge (I've checked Bomber Command employment on the nights when No. 38 Group flew Tactical Bombing missions in the first week of Feb 1945, and there were no BC aircraft detailed against the No. 38 Group targets).

    Cheers

    Rod

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    Default Re: Grevenbroich bombing February 1st 1945

    Rod,

    Correct, independent of RAF Bomber Command. I remember reading at the NA a report where GH equipped aircraft of 2nd TAF or 2 Group would be employed to mark targets for 38 Group. GH had started to be introduced into 38 Group Stirling's in January 1945, but used for SOE drops over Norway. Interesting, none of the participating crews report bombing on flares or TI's, but there must have been used?

    Chaz

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    Default Re: Grevenbroich bombing February 1st 1945

    Hi,

    I have a document covering 2 TAF operations including the bombing operations by 38 Group under 2 Group control.

    10 Halifaxes and 20 Stirlings were detailed to attack Grevenbroich.
    18 Stirlings attacked dropping 428 x 500 MC. Bombs from 7000 ft between 2138 and 2245 hrs. 2 a/c abortive due to GEE failure

    I am no expert on bombing tactics but is this indicating that they did not need assistance with marking of the target?

    Mosquitos from 2 Group were also active on this night mainly on the hunt for transport targets but they also attacked Grevenbroich (136 and/or 140 Wings).

    Regards
    Peter

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    JDCAVE (27th September 2021)

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    Default Re: Grevenbroich bombing February 1st 1945

    Peter: They could have bombed on GEE. My fathers crew did this on an op to Hagen, Dec 2, 1944...

    Jim
    Last edited by JDCAVE; 28th September 2021 at 00:32. Reason: The remainder of this post deleted as it was not correct

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    Default Re: Grevenbroich bombing February 1st 1945

    Quote Originally Posted by JDCAVE View Post
    Peter: What does the 38-Group ORB record on this?
    Jim
    Firstly, there are not the range of post-raid reports on the No 38 Group tactical bombing missions as there are for Bomber Command raids.

    However, here are some extracts from the No. 38 Group ORB (TNA AIR 25/586):

    4 Jan
    A meeting was held at Headquarters No, 38 Group to approve the trial installations of G-H Talking Rebecca and V.H.F. in Stirling aircraft. Air Ministry, M.A.P. and R.A.E. representatives inspected the installations in a Stirling aircraft at RIVENHALL. The installations were approved subject to the modification of the V.H.F. aerial mounting.

    8 Jan
    The following signal was received from S.H.A.E.F.:- "Proposals submitted by A.O.C. 38 Group after consultation with A.O.C. 2nd T.A.F. for the employment of the effort which is surplus to his S.O.E. and F.A.A.A.. commitments are agreed. This effort should be employed on Night Bombing operations supplementary to those of No. 2 Group. Method of employment and allocation of tasks to be in accordance with proposals submitted by the A.O.C. 38 Group."

    20/21 Jan
    The first Tactical Bombing operations of this Group were carried out after four nights of disappointment, due to poor weather conditions. 10 aircraft took off from EARLS COLNE for the target WEGBERG. The aircraft completed their mission successfully, 9 returned to base but the tenth had to land at B.51 owing to shortage of petrol.

    28/29 Jan
    [details a tactical bombing raid and then concludes with...] ...17 were successful but three had to return early owning to GEE being u/s.

    Other entries simply record when aircraft aborted with GEE u/s.

    I suspect any additional details on the shift to night tactical bombing will be contained in the Dec 1944 ORB, which I don't have.

    Cheers

    Rod

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    Default Re: Grevenbroich bombing February 1st 1945

    Quote Originally Posted by phasselgren View Post
    Hi,

    I have a document covering 2 TAF operations including the bombing operations by 38 Group under 2 Group control.

    10 Halifaxes and 20 Stirlings were detailed to attack Grevenbroich.
    18 Stirlings attacked dropping 428 x 500 MC. Bombs from 7000 ft between 2138 and 2245 hrs. 2 a/c abortive due to GEE failure

    I am no expert on bombing tactics but is this indicating that they did not need assistance with marking of the target?

    Mosquitos from 2 Group were also active on this night mainly on the hunt for transport targets but they also attacked Grevenbroich (136 and/or 140 Wings).

    Regards
    Peter
    Hi Peter,

    do you happen to have similar 2nd TAF entries for the following nights of Tactical Bombing?

    20/21 Jan 45
    21/22 Jan 45
    25/26 Jan 45
    1/2 Feb 45
    2/3 Feb 45
    4/5 Feb 45
    7/8 Feb 45
    13/14 Feb 45
    21/22 Feb 45
    23/24 Feb 45
    26/27 Feb 45

    The reason I ask is because I've been looking for a record of bombing times for ages : ) but never found anything...

    Cheers

    Rod

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    Default Re: Grevenbroich bombing February 1st 1945

    Rod's comments on G-H noted.

    I downloaded the ORB Records and Summaries for 196, 299, 190 and 620 Squadrons. My apologies: I had confused the take-off times for other days for this target. They attacked this target in subsequent days and the take-off times were later. 190 and 620 Squadrons were not operational that night but went to Grevenbroich on subsequent evenings.

    196 Squadron took off from 1940-1950 hrs. 4 successful, one unsuccessful with Gee u/s and load jettisoned. No “Summary of events” for the month.
    299 Squadron took off from 1954-2015 hrs. 5 successful. "F/Sgt Clark 1337102 in Mk IV LK.118, 24X500lb bombs by GEE homing." No comments as to methods for other sorties. No bombing times are given in the "Records" Entries.

    In the absence of other information, it seems these aircraft likely bombed on GEE.

    Edit: Okay. Here we go. 570 Squadron 1/2/45. 5 aircraft from the squadron were detailed to carry out a bombing Mission on Grevenboich, Germany 51 [deg] 05'N. 06 [deg] 36' E. This was in direct support for ground forces employed on the Roer front. Each aircraft was successful in dropping blind on GEE...

    Peter gets an "At-a-boy!" on this one.

    Note: On Feb 26/2/45, on an operation on a wood south of Xanten, the 570 ORB mentions navigators were briefed to drop on G-H.

    Jim
    Last edited by JDCAVE; 27th September 2021 at 21:44.

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    Default Re: Grevenbroich bombing February 1st 1945

    I've always thought myself to be well informed on the bombing war. But until this thread popped along I had no idea that 38 Group dropped anything other than troops or stores. A very interesting read!

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