Hurricane P2797

[Andy Marden]

A photo of Hurricane P2797 from a German collection has appeared on ebay:
https://www.ebay.at/itm/124902166559...oAAOSwrMJhQe7m
It appears to be uncoded.
There don't seem to be any details on this aircraft other than it was lost in France in May40.
Does anyone have any clues as to which squadron might have operated it, and from where please?

[paulmcmillan]

FROM TOCH Cached (2005)

-- Maybe

Hello,
Following the same line as 79 Squadron questions, I have the following -

P2620 - 615 Sqn. [BUT 607 Sqn - F/O M H B Thompson shot down by Bf109 of 4/JG2 and crashed near Gembloux, pilot killed 14/05/40 ].

P2621 - Lost in France 05/40.

P2797 - CFF [ BUT 607 Sqn - P/O A S Dini, a/c damaged by Bf109 of II/JG26 and crash landed at Vitry, pilot unhurt 18/05/40 ].

P2830 - Lost in France 05/40.

P2870 - CFF [ BUT 607 Sqn - Sqn Ldr L E Smith shot down near Dinant, probably by Bf109 of III/JG53, pilot killed 15/05/40

P2873 - CFF [ BUT 607 Sqn - F/O W F Blackadder a/c damaged by return fire from Do17Z of II/KG76 and force landed at Vitry, pilot unhurt, 18/05/40 ].

P2874 - Kenley/17 Sqn. [ BUT - 607 Sqn - P/O G McK Stewart a/c damaged by return fire from He111P of I/KG54 and force landed near Amiens, pilot unhurt 17/05/40 ].

P3448 - Presumed Lost in France 05/40. [ BUT 607 Sqn - F/O R E W Pumphrey shot down by flak between Cambrai and Arras pilot baled, POW 20/05/40 ].

P3535 - CFF Lost in France 05/40. [ BUT P/O P L Parrott a/c damaged near Louvain by Bf109 of 1/JG21, pilot unhurt 13/05/40 AND Sqn Ldr G M Fidler shot down SW of Tournai by Bf109 of (J)/LG2, pilot baled POW 19/05/40 ].

Again refs were AB's L1000-N9999 and P1000-R9999; 12 days in May ; FCL Vol 1 revised.

Alex Smart

Re: Questions about 607 Sqdn Hurricane's
Alex

You seem not to have consulted Peter Cornwell's book BoF Then and Now.

P2620 Check, but w/o 13.5.1940 (not 14/5)
P2621 Sullivan had been assigned to 607 Sq and arrived the same day he was lost. Cornwell says aircraft from 607 Sq and pilot 242 Sq.
P2797 According to Cornwell he was in P3535 which was slightly damaged. P2797 not listed in the index.
P2830 Not listed in the index
P2870 Check
P2873 Check, added that aircraft was lost
P2874 Check, added that aircraft was repaired and returned to unit.
P3448 Check
P3535 Check (13.5.1940), slight damage, repaired and returned. Differs (18.5.1940). Cornwell says aircraft badly damaged, poss by Stab I./JG 77 G.M. Fidler killed in the ensuing crash.

I cannot say if the above compromises P3535 or not. The damage was slight
on 18/5. Was it back and in service already on the 19th to be lost that day?
According to Cornwell, yes.

Cheers

Stig Jarlevik

[Andy Marden]

Paul,
Thanks, so possibly a 607 Sqn aircraft.
What does CFF mean please?
Andy

[jossleclercq]

Hello

CFF = Combined Forces in France.

Joss

[Martin Gleeson]

Andy,

From my research for the Eagles Over Europe project I have P2797 of 607 Squadron landed at Vitry-en-Artois airfield slightly damaged in combat with Bf 109s of II./JG26 3.30 p.m. Pilot Officer Antonio Simmons Dini unhurt. Aircraft AF-E damaged but later abandoned on evacuation of the airfield.
The air combats around Vitry-en-Artois on 18 May 1940 are extremely difficult to piece together.
My main sources were ‘TWELVE DAYS IN MAY’ (p. 220 & 234) by Brian Cull, Bruce Lander and Heinrich Weiss and ‘ACES HIGH, Vol. 2’ (p. 75-76) by Christopher Shores. Unfortunately the 607 Sqn. ORB for April and May 1940 was lost in France and there is only a mere four pages of narrative written afterwards to cover this period. There is no mention of any of the May 18th combats or losses. Due to the extent of serials and aircraft letters given by Cull/Larder/Weiss and Shores they may have had access to Dini’s logbook.
I would note that the F.78 for P2797 only has ’20 M.U. 3-4-1940’, ‘H.Q. C.F.F. 16-5-1940’ , ‘1 R&SU 16-5-1940’ and ‘SOC May 1940’. No mention of 607 Sqn. Dates such as the above for May 1940 can be several days out (at least). P2797 would appear to have been ferried to France around May 16th , perhaps initially to No. 1Repair & Salvage Unit for onward distribution to a squadron requiring replacements. So it may only have been with 607 Squadron for a day or two, which ties in with the lack of codes on the fuselage side. Note too the fin flash. Some or all of the Hurricanes on strength with the squadron on May 10th did not have the fin flash yet. I have P3535 crashing on May 19th after the pilot baled out.

Regards,

Martin Gleeson.

[Andy Marden]

Thanks to all for their contributions.
It would certainly seem that P2797 was never physically marked with its allocated code, which is hardly surprising given its short period of service, although I believe there were some instances of aircraft being marked on one side only.
I presume Luftwaffe intelligence must have made detailed inspections of a lot of these abandoned aircraft. It is just a pity that any records they made seem to have been lost.

[jossleclercq]

Hello

Living in the geographical area where many of these planes came down, I can only confirm how difficult it is to tie specific losses to locations. Due to e-bay sales, we are making slow progress but the general problem with Hurricanes is the fabric covered fuselage, which is often missing.

I have never seen or heard about German detailed inspections of crashed or abandoned planes in occupied countries. I wish such listings would exist !

I can't add much about P2797 to what Martin had given.

I confirm P3535 crashed and was totally destroyed, buried in the ground, as I have seen parts from it with the serial number clearly visible. But it's considered a war grave suspiscion, as S/L G.M. FIDLER is still MIA. Case not officially solved so far, even though the grave in Bachy communal cemetery which had been marked as his grave for décades, has finally been replaced by an "unknown airman" grave marker.

Joss