Page 3 of 3 FirstFirst 123
Results 21 to 27 of 27

Thread: Hurricane P3350

  1. #21
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Limerick, Ireland.
    Posts
    540
    Thanks
    1
    Thanked 21 Times in 19 Posts

    Default Re: Hurricane P3350

    Hello Zorglub,
    Firstly can you clarify a detail for me please on the photo of the data plate ? Is it possible that the last digit in the constructor’s number is a ‘5’ and not a ‘2’ ? I only ask because it looks more like a ‘5’ to me. I hope it is a ‘2’ or my argument below is ruined !

    Aside from that, and as you suggested in an earlier post, I also think it may be an incorrectly stamped aircraft serial number on the data plate (‘P3350’ instead of P3450).

    I can find no trace in any primary RAF documents I have been able to check of P3350 and P3450 after 4 and 5 June 1940 respectively. It seems the earliest reference to P3450 being Claydon’s aircraft comes from a history of 501 Squadron written by Dave Watkins in 1990, ‘FEAR NOTHING’. The author may have had access to the original ‘B’ Flight flying log, probably in private ownership. I found this detail on another online forum after I ‘googled’ for P3450.

    If the above is correct that leaves the real P3350 without a final fate as before. I cannot prove it but I suspect strongly that P3350 was written off sometime during the Battle of Britain. There is certainly no F.1180 accident card for it covering the period June to September 1940 inclusive.

    If the constructor’s number on the data plate your team recovered is indeed ’41 H 125122’ then it is almost certain to be for P3450 based on your earlier finding of the ’41 H 125162’ data plate for P3490. Looking at the list of serials posted by Paul McMillan on October 20th there is an important point to consider. The RAF were using ‘Blackout Blocks’ in between (small) batches of aircraft in a production run. So one sees;
    P3345-P3364 20 aircraft.
    Blackout Block of 15.
    P3380-P3429 50 aircraft.
    Blackout Block of 18.
    P3448-P3492. 45 aircraft.
    So we find 33 serials not issued between P3350 and P3490. It seems highly unlikely to me that an aircraft company would issue constructors numbers to non-existent airframes in those ‘Blackout Blocks’. It also appears that Hawkers issued their constructor’s numbers in sequence with the Air Ministry aircraft serials and it did not matter which factory built the particular aircraft.
    Witness the following;
    41 H 125122 P3450 Brooklands
    41 H 125162 P3490 Langley.
    Exactly 40 between each set of numbers.
    Allowing for the 33 serials not issued in the ‘Blackout Blocks’ between P3350 and P3450 one would therefore expect to see a constructors number of ’41 H 125055’ for the real P3350 and not ’41 H 125022’. However it is known that a ’41 H 129xxx’ series of constructor’s numbers was in use by ‘P38xx’. If someone has a definitive list of constructor’s numbers matched to P-serialled Hurricanes that should settle matters !

    I hope this helps a little to resolve the identity of Claydon’s aircraft. I would be very interested in your further comments on the matter.

    Regards,

    Martin.

  2. The Following User Says Thank You to Martin Gleeson For This Useful Post:

    paulmcmillan (28th October 2021)

  3. #22
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Posts
    6,139
    Thanks
    99
    Thanked 278 Times in 258 Posts

    Default Re: Hurricane P3350

    Martin great numerically analysis!!

  4. #23
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Posts
    27
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post

    Default Re: Hurricane P3350

    Hello Martin ,

    Very many thanks for your kind help . Your time spent on this mystery is greatly appreciated !
    C/N on P3350 data plate is definitively 41 H 125122 , so comparison with P3490 - 41 H 125162 is certainly interesting , despite they were built in different factories .
    I don't believe in an incorrectly stamped data plate ( ever seen this before ? ) , but more certainly something wrong with ORBs ( no surprise ) or even Form 78 Movement Card ?
    Don't forget loss of John Shepherd same day same area as Claydon , 1 Squadron ORB awful !
    Hopefully we'll find a clue at the crash-site where most remains will be removed soon .
    Regards ,
    Zorglub

  5. #24
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Aubers, France
    Posts
    2,545
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 28 Times in 27 Posts

    Default Re: Hurricane P3350

    Hello

    Martin's theory is interesting, and I've used the same path to identify a B-17G with a part with c/n, to convert it the same way to a s/n, before we got confirmation with pictures of the whole wreckage.

    I've seen and photographed the dataplate of Hurricane I P3392, and the c/n is 41 H 121565 (a little bit unsure for the last digit, but for this exercise it doesn't make a big difference), and if my maths are correct, it only makes a difference of 3 with the c/n of P3490, but a much larger difference of s/n !

    As it had been expressed in this thread, it'd be interesting to have other examples of couples c/n - s/n of Hurricanes in these production batches, to see if Martin's theory is correct.

    Joss

  6. #25
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Posts
    27
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post

    Default Re: Hurricane P3350

    Hi Joss ,

    You mean 41H 125... ? Whatever even 41 H 121... it does not help . After some research it seems very much alas that there was no increment between c/n and RAF serial , at least with Hawker .
    We had the idea to compare with P3351 which is currently flying at Dijon . Unfortunately the data plate is not located where it should be , and worst , serial had been changed as DR393 when modified to a Mk II !

  7. #26
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Posts
    6,139
    Thanks
    99
    Thanked 278 Times in 258 Posts

    Default Re: Hurricane P3350

    Joss have you a copy of photo of dataplate P3392 c/n is 41 H 121565 or c/n is 41 H 125165 ??also what HA code is stamped on it and date > thanks Paul

    By the way if you include "black out serial numbers" P3392 would be 41 H 12nn64

  8. #27
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Aubers, France
    Posts
    2,545
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 28 Times in 27 Posts

    Default Re: Hurricane P3350

    Hello

    I confirm 41 H 121565 with a little bit of uncertainty about the final 5. I cleaned that plaque myself, but it's sometimes difficult to have clear results because of twisted metal, and also because we left that plaque attached to the piece of strut, behind a fuel tanks selector. Hence not easy to clean and the HA code is not visible, being being the tanks selector panel.

    Last digit is definitively not a 4.

    Production date is 1 2 40.

    I'll attach a copy of it if I can manage how to do it.

    Joss

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •