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Thread: Unaccounted Airmen - Unknown Aircraft, Incorrect Serials, Unidentified Types

  1. #51
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    Default Re: Unaccounted Airmen - Unknown Aircraft, Incorrect Serials, Unidentified Types

    so Alex, the confusion is about 205738 being a TURNER (SAAF 85Yrs) or TURNBULL (CWGC)..

    And SAAF War Graves Site has TURNBULL as a casualty for Tomahawk Mk IIA AN446 http://www.southafricawargraves.org/...s.php?id=25633

    5Sqn SAAF ORB confirms TURNBULL as the name https://discovery.nationalarchives.g...mageViewerLink (page 9)
    Aircraft and serial confirmed on Page 164 of https://discovery.nationalarchives.g...mageViewerLink
    Last edited by Jagan; 30th November 2021 at 17:44.

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    Default Re: Unaccounted Airmen - Unknown Aircraft, Incorrect Serials, Unidentified Types

    All very confusing . But it looks like the fog is clearing at last.
    Only one Turner and one Turnbull involved in this particular search. Good job you picked up Col's post with the service number difference otherwise it would not have been cleared up.
    So -
    18/9/43
    Turner = Spitfire - JK140 - 7 Sqn SAAF.
    And
    6/9/42
    Turnbull = Tomahawk - AN446 - 5 Sqn SAAF.
    ����

  3. The Following User Says Thank You to Alex Smart For This Useful Post:

    Jagan (30th November 2021)

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    Default Re: Unaccounted Airmen - Unknown Aircraft, Incorrect Serials, Unidentified Types

    Gentlemen,

    Apologies about the service number confusion, have edited.

    TURNBULL, Lt William Fraser 205738V Sea Point, Cape Town, 6 Sqdn c.3.42-42. 5 Sqdn 1942-6.9.42 KIA. Age 19. Alamein Memorial Col.267.*

    6th September 1942.
    5 Sqdn Tomahawk IIb 17h30-18h50 scramble.
    AN446: GL-V Lt WF Turnbull KIA s/d by (AA or a 109?) c.19km from El Alamein. (SFV3/198).

    TURNER, Lt Allan Gordon 205842V. Born Pietermaritzburg. 7 Sqdn 11.8.42-6.9.42 Shot down WIA but returned 28 or 29.9.42- 18.09.43 KIA while on Cos Island detachment. Alamein Memorial Col.278.*

    6th September 1942.
    7 Sqdn: Hurricane II 08h.30-09h35 Hurribomber escort.
    BP750 2/Lt AG Turner WiA shot down by BF109 c. 15mls from El Alamein. (SFV3/198).

    18 September 1943. (Appendix II - Claims and Losses of the 7 Sqn [SAAF] Kos detachment)
    Spitfire Vc Scramble at 15h10.
    JK140 "O" Lt AG Turner KIA s/d by Bf109G, 4km north of Kos Isld. (SFV4/194)

    *
    Springbok Fighter Victory SAAF Fighter Operations 1939 - 1945 Volume 1 - East Africa - 1940 - 1941.
    Schoeman,Michael.
    Nelspruit:Freeworld Publications,2002.
    p.181 (Appendix II - SAAF fighter pilots who are known (or are believed) to have flown operationally with SAAF, Commonwealth or Allied fighter squadrons, 1939-45 [pp.146-185]).

    Col.
    Last edited by COL BRUGGY; 30th November 2021 at 23:02.

  5. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to COL BRUGGY For This Useful Post:

    Alex Smart (2nd December 2021),Jagan (30th November 2021)

  6. #54
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    Default Re: Unaccounted Airmen - Unknown Aircraft, Incorrect Serials, Unidentified Types

    Thank you Col,
    I had wondered about BP750 but got confused.
    All the best
    Alex

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    Default Re: Unaccounted Airmen - Unknown Aircraft, Incorrect Serials, Unidentified Types

    Re: Sgt. William McFall, of 104 OTU, died aged 53. At rest Burnbank, Hamilton.Son of Patrick and Isabel (nee Campbell). Was married, son died in the 1980's.
    Previous post by Henk has a reply that he was noted as DOAS.
    But also noted as "Flying accident " ?
    Last edited by Alex Smart; 6th December 2021 at 21:11.

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    Default Re: Unaccounted Airmen - Unknown Aircraft, Incorrect Serials, Unidentified Types

    Re: Sgt G, C, LAWRENCE, 1392936 - 288 Sqn.
    Aircraft accident at Whetstone near Leicester. OXFORD I, X6780, 288 Sqn.

    Listed in Henk's datafile T-Z.

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    Default Re: Unaccounted Airmen - Unknown Aircraft, Incorrect Serials, Unidentified Types

    Re: Sgt. A, S, FUNNEL, 534974 - 150 Sqn
    He looks to be mentioned in the ORB for the first time with the crew - Clarke, Laing, Deanshanger Ronaldson on the 27/08/1942 in X3313, then on the 2nd September, with the crew - Hughes, Stead, Rennes and Haylett.
    The same crew on the 6th September. A/c serial is given as BJ745.
    However that serial is in a block not used.
    So looking in BA100- BZ999 I found BJ754 which served with 150 Sqn and with other units later.
    Notes for the 6th Sept suggests that one a/c returned after being intercepted by a Ju88, it jettisoned its bomb load and returned. A second a/c also returned early I now forget the reason.
    If for some unknown reason the a/c BJ754 was recorded in the ORB as BJ745 this would be the a/c, BJ754 that Funnel was in., there seems to be no further mention of her in the ORB so if damaged then it follows that after repair it went to another Unit.
    Could be as the tail Gunner he was killed in the Ju88 encounter ?
    Last edited by Alex Smart; 6th December 2021 at 23:36.

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    Default Re: Unaccounted Airmen - Unknown Aircraft, Incorrect Serials, Unidentified Types

    Re: W/O. E, ROBERTS, 17 November 44. 281 Sqn.
    This a/c was an ASR Warwick. Serial number BV520 "Q". Ditched while on an ASR search West of Voe. Five crew safe, one killed.

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    Default Re: Unaccounted Airmen - Unknown Aircraft, Incorrect Serials, Unidentified Types

    Regarding the loss of Humphreys and Lumb on 23 June 1943, see: http://www.rafcommands.com/forum/sho...llision-1943&p
    Their aircraft was DZ740.
    The loss of the crew is recorded in the 151 Sqn Summary of Events at: https://discovery.nationalarchives.g...ils/r/D8389573
    The loss is not recorded in the 151 Sqn ORB at: https://discovery.nationalarchives.g...ils/r/D8389574
    This is probably because DZ740 was a 157 Sqn aircraft (according to Air-Britain serials book). It does indeed appear once in the 157 Sqn ORB for Jun 43:
    https://discovery.nationalarchives.g...ils/r/D8390009
    where it is recorded as flying a sortie on the night of 17/18 Jun 43. However, there is no reference to any loss on the 23 Jun 43 in the 157 Sqn ORB or Summary of Events.
    So in summary, the loss of the crew is only mentioned in the 151 Sqn Summary of Events, but with no serial.
    There is some background information at http://www.151squadron.org.uk/
    although note that the name of Humphreys is mis-spelt - I have informed the site owner.

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    Default Re: Unaccounted Airmen - Unknown Aircraft, Incorrect Serials, Unidentified Types

    Sgt. William McFall, of 104 OTU, died aged 53

    I cannot find him in FreeBNMD or ScotlandsPeople anyone else - CWGC has June 1943


    Sergeant WILLIAM McFALL. Service Number: 20660. Regiment & Unit/Ship. Royal Air Force. Date of Death. Died 01 June 1943. Age 53 years old

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