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Thread: Unaccounted Airmen - Unknown Aircraft, Incorrect Serials, Unidentified Types

  1. #41
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    Default Re: Unaccounted Airmen - Unknown Aircraft, Incorrect Serials, Unidentified Types

    Quote Originally Posted by paulmcmillan View Post
    Desert Air Force Hq?
    I am not sure whether this helps...
    By 1944 the Desert Air Force had moved from North Africa to Italy.
    According to Lance C. Wade's Wikipedia entry:
    "Wade was promoted to wing commander and joined the staff of the Desert Air Force but was there only briefly, as he was killed in a flying accident on 12 January 1944 at Foggia, Italy"

    I have looked at Reel No. MFC 77-16/81 which should contain F.1180 of Auster accidents during 1944 and there is no report for MT415 during January 1944.
    I looked at both January and February 1944 and there were no Auster reports from Africa or Italy, just the U.K. and India.
    I think the next step will be the ORB but that might need someone to visit The National Archives.
    Tony Broadhurst

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    Default Re: Unaccounted Airmen - Unknown Aircraft, Incorrect Serials, Unidentified Types

    Thanks for the replies re MT415. This does now seem to be quite a good candidate, as by inference an aircraft shipped to North Africa in Sep 43 could easily have moved on to Italy with a HQ unit by Jan 44. As Tony says, probably only the relevant ORB would provide final proof.

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    Default Re: Unaccounted Airmen - Unknown Aircraft, Incorrect Serials, Unidentified Types

    Quote Originally Posted by dennis_burke View Post
    DAng it, LR162 seemed very obvious.

    So LP182 is the other suggestion, is its F78 available at the same site?
    Yes, indeed, Alex also suggested this earlier in the thread:

    "Just looking at SNAPE, and the Wellington serial LP162.
    Is it possible that this was LP182 (37 Sqn) that according to ABLA100- LZ999 blew up while loading at Tortorella . The date given in the book is 28/6/1944.
    There is also mention in vol 2 of BCL losses in the ME, page133.
    A second a/c MF351 was set alight by debris from LP182.
    The fatalities and this event are so very close."

    The problem with LP182 is that this 37 Sqn machine was destroyed on the ground at Tortorella, Italy.
    Looking at the five casualties involved in the "LP162" incident: http://www.rafcommands.com/database/...php?uniq=LP162
    four are buried in the Ramleh War Cemetery in Israel and the other is commemorated on the Alamein Memorial. So clearly there is no link between these five men and the Tortorella incident.
    The record card for LP182 can be found at:
    http://lancasterbombersinfo.ipage.co...ile/index.html
    It does not state either 37 Sqn or 77 OTU. In fact I cannot make out any unit after its delivery by 3OADU - offers anyone?
    LP182 flew 14 operations with 37 Sqn in Jun 44, the last on the night of 25/26 Jun (all from ORB). The summary of events records the bomb explosion incident as being at 1515 on 28 Jun 44, again noting the serial as LP182, code X. It also notes that no-one was injured.
    So I think we can conclude that this was not the aircraft involved in the 77 OTU incident.
    I have reviewed the Air-Britain book for potential 77 OTU aircraft from the LN/LP/LR serial batches, but there are no obvious candidates.

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    Default Re: Unaccounted Airmen - Unknown Aircraft, Incorrect Serials, Unidentified Types

    Quote Originally Posted by Andy Marden View Post
    Yes, indeed, Alex also suggested this earlier in the thread:
    The record card for LP182 can be found at:
    http://lancasterbombersinfo.ipage.co...ile/index.html
    It does not state either 37 Sqn or 77 OTU. In fact I cannot make out any unit after its delivery by 3OADU - offers anyone?.
    I read it as

    Departed/Dispatched MAC
    Arr - MAC

    could MAC be Mediterranean Air Command?
    I look at LP180 and it shows MAAF instead of MAC - so again Mediterranean Allied Air Forces?

    Might fit in with 3 OADU and its final loss in Italy.
    Last edited by Jagan; 28th November 2021 at 19:35.

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    Default Re: Unaccounted Airmen - Unknown Aircraft, Incorrect Serials, Unidentified Types

    Hello Jagan,
    Did you eliminate Turner 7 Sqn SAAF, 6 September 1942 ?
    His a/c was BP750 as far as I can find.
    Alex

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  7. #46
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    Default Re: Unaccounted Airmen - Unknown Aircraft, Incorrect Serials, Unidentified Types

    Hi Alex

    I may have missed your earlier post / correction. For now Turner is recorded for Spitfire JK140. Should this be corrected?
    http://www.rafcommands.com/database/...hp?qnum=117273

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    Default Re: Unaccounted Airmen - Unknown Aircraft, Incorrect Serials, Unidentified Types

    Hello Jagan, thanks for your response. Right now I just cannot recall how or from where I got the BP750 number from ��
    So I must agree that the JK140 number is correct.
    Good thing you questioned my post.

    I do still think that ND276 is the correct number for the 108 Sqn loss on the 1st October 1944.
    As I said, no mention in the 108 SqnORB of V8865 that I could find. However that is the number that is given in the HMAW vol 5. Do you know where the authors got that number from ?
    Thanks
    Alex
    Last edited by Alex Smart; 30th November 2021 at 12:56.

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    Default Re: Unaccounted Airmen - Unknown Aircraft, Incorrect Serials, Unidentified Types

    Quote Originally Posted by Jagan View Post
    Hi Alex

    I may have missed your earlier post / correction. For now Turner is recorded for Spitfire JK140. Should this be corrected?
    http://www.rafcommands.com/database/...hp?qnum=117273
    Jagan,

    Re: Lt A. G. Turner SAAF.

    TURNER, Lt Allan Gordon 205738V (the "V" indicating that Turner was a volunteer). Born: Pietermaritzburg.
    7 Sqdn SAAF - 11.8.42-6.9.42
    Shot down, Wounded in Action but returned 28 or 29.9.42.
    18.9.43 Killed in Action while on Cos Island Detachment.
    Commemorated on Alamein Memorial, Col.278.

    More later.

    Col.

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    Default Re: Unaccounted Airmen - Unknown Aircraft, Incorrect Serials, Unidentified Types

    Hi Colin,

    Can you confirm if CWGC Got the service number for Turner wrong? They have 205842 instead of 205738 https://www.cwgc.org/find-records/fi...2851/turner,-/

    As per them 205738 belongs to Lieutenant William Fraser TURNBULL (205738) https://www.cwgc.org/find-records/fi...illiam-fraser/

    I will update the first name accordingly.. but need further confirmation about the service number

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    Default Re: Unaccounted Airmen - Unknown Aircraft, Incorrect Serials, Unidentified Types

    Hello,
    205842 is Allan Gordon Turner 7 Sqn SAAF, death 18/9/43. Spitfire JK140.

    William Fraser Turner is 205738 5 Sqn SAAF, death 6/9/42. Hurricane ??750,(BP750 ?).

    85 years SAAF has AG Turner for both events on pages 261 & 406 for William and pages 305 & 411 for Allan.

    Alex
    Last edited by Alex Smart; 30th November 2021 at 17:52.

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