Unaccounted Airmen - Unknown Aircraft, Incorrect Serials, Unidentified Types

[Alex Smart]

We have is in a collective grave at Fort Scott, Bourbon, Kansas.
Plot Section 2 Collective grave 1735.
Memorial ID 18869027.
Also Rennie is Commemorated on the family headstone at Elora Cemetery, Wellington County, Ontario, Canada. Plot H14-8 Memorial ID 130741251.

The 5 Americans are -
Capt. Albert GOUGH.
Capt.Virgil (nmi)INGRAM.
1Lt. Raymond G, MUNSON.
2Lt. Edward H, PHELAN.
S/Sgt. William E, GUSTAFSON
P/O Henry Thompson RENNIE
Tha aircraft was from the 12th Bomer Group/ 83rd Bomber Squadron. Number "93".

[Alex Smart]

For CHIDGEY and MONTGOMERY we have B-24 USAAF, 42-51661, 451st Bomber Group, MACR 15574.

For HARRIS, 28/11/44 we have B-24J-120-CO, 42-109985.

For HERBERT, 9/10/44 we have B-24 44-40398, 380thBomb Group, 531st Bomb Sqn, MACR 11647.

[Alex Smart]

In regard to the loss of Cadet COLLING, Paul Cecil John on the 21/10/1941 in the USA.
Datasheet shows the a/c to be a BT-13A.
However a photo of the wreckage along with the local newspaper report dated 22nd shows the tail unit which to me does not look to me to be that of a BT-13A.
So maybe another training type that were being used at Falcon Field, Mesa, Arizona ?
See Findagrave -

https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/...l_john-colling

Note the newspapers report about the earlier death of Cadet Alexander Thomas BROOKS. CWGC has this Airman's death as the 20th, but seems that it was earlier ?

Alex

[Alex Smart]

In regard to - Lt. Alexander de JONG, 206533V - SAAF - 17 Sqn
And
WO1, Thomas SMALLWOOD, 329105V - SAAF - 17 Sqn
These two airmen were crew of Ventura FP635, "Y" of 17 Sqn that was brought down by flak while attacking U-Boat U-453.
Two other crewmembers were also killed. They were -
PINES and JOSEPHSON .

[Alex Smart]

Well Jagen,
Looks like your list has now all been answered, so exercise completed ?

[COL BRUGGY]

In regard to - Lt. Alexander de JONG, 206533V - SAAF - 17 Sqn
And
WO1, Thomas SMALLWOOD, 329105V - SAAF - 17 Sqn
These two airmen were crew of Ventura FP543 of 17 Sqn that was brought down by flak while attacking U-Boat U-453.
Two other crewmembers were also killed. They were -
PINES and JOSEPHSON .

Alex,

Re: Ventura GR.V FP543. I suggest you peruse the following documents:

https://recordsearch.naa.gov.au/Sear...aspx?B=3501664

Col.

[Andy Marden]

Yes indeed, this still seems to be an outstanding issue.
The same serial is being quoted for two losses (459 Sqn RAAF on 3Feb44 and 17 Sqn SAAF on 4Feb44).
It has been discussed before, see: http://www.rafcommands.com/archive/10723.php

[COL BRUGGY]

Hello,

the 17 Sqn SAAF Ventura, lost on 4 February, 1944, was possibly FP635/"Y".

See: 17 Sqn SAAF ORB - https://discovery.nationalarchives.g...ils/r/C2502875 - p.78 of 272 (see also pp.45 & 94 of 272).

Col.

[Alex Smart]

Hello Col and Andy,
Yes you are correct. I just found references to the a/c serials and letter in the ORB.
Indeed a/c "Y" was FP635.

Have edited my first post.
Alex

[Freshman]

In regard to the loss of Cadet COLLING, Paul Cecil John on the 21/10/1941 in the USA.
Datasheet shows the a/c to be a BT-13A.
However a photo of the wreckage along with the local newspaper report dated 22nd shows the tail unit which to me does not look to me to be that of a BT-13A.
So maybe another training type that were being used at Falcon Field, Mesa, Arizona ?
See Findagrave -

https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/...l_john-colling

Note the newspapers report about the earlier death of Cadet Alexander Thomas BROOKS. CWGC has this Airman's death as the 20th, but seems that it was earlier ?

Alex

Alex,
The British Flying Training Schools were all equipped with primary, basic and advanced trainer types (PT, BT and single-engined AT). No.4 B.F.T.S. used PT-17 and PT-17A, BT-13A (up to November 1942), AT-6A, together with a small number of AT-6C and AT-6Ds.

As regard LAC Collings accident on October 21, 1941, the very brief details on Form 1180 report the aircraft involved as "BT-13A 117". #117 is likely to be the aircraft's School Identity No, rather than a partial serial no. The PT were assigned lower numbers than this and AT were mostly numbered above 200. Unfortunately the daily reports in the ORB of No.4 B.F.T.S. only begin in January 1943 and so provide no help here. As is the usual case with BFTS accidents there appears to be no surviving USAAF Form 14 accident report for this loss. I have searched many of the BT-13A and AT-6A AAF individual aircraft record cards and so far have not found LAC Collings name, or noted a matching crash date. I have not seen the photograph you refer to. "The RAF in Arizona Falcon Field" by Jim Dawson is useful resource and includes some local newspaper reports but not, unfortunately, a photo of LAC Collings aircraft. Dawson also records the accident as involving a BT-13 and that LAC Collings was a member of Course No 2.

LAC Brooks was a student of Course No.1, who died on 20 October 1941 as a result of injuries received in a night flying accident a few nights earlier. According to the Form 1180 his accident occurred shortly before midnight on October 16, 1941 and involved "AT 6A #198". The AAF IARC shows an accident to AT-6A, 41-693 on 17 October 1941 flown by LAC Alexander T. Brooks - "overshot field, airplane and engine complete wreck". I have no doubt this is the same accident.
Tony Broadhurst