Page 3 of 9 FirstFirst 1234567 ... LastLast
Results 21 to 30 of 89

Thread: Unaccounted Airmen - Unknown Aircraft, Incorrect Serials, Unidentified Types

  1. #21
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Cornwall
    Posts
    3,757
    Thanks
    766
    Thanked 57 Times in 53 Posts

    Default Re: Unaccounted Airmen - Unknown Aircraft, Incorrect Serials, Unidentified Types

    We have is in a collective grave at Fort Scott, Bourbon, Kansas.
    Plot Section 2 Collective grave 1735.
    Memorial ID 18869027.
    Also Rennie is Commemorated on the family headstone at Elora Cemetery, Wellington County, Ontario, Canada. Plot H14-8 Memorial ID 130741251.

    The 5 Americans are -
    Capt. Albert GOUGH.
    Capt.Virgil (nmi)INGRAM.
    1Lt. Raymond G, MUNSON.
    2Lt. Edward H, PHELAN.
    S/Sgt. William E, GUSTAFSON
    P/O Henry Thompson RENNIE
    Tha aircraft was from the 12th Bomer Group/ 83rd Bomber Squadron. Number "93".
    Last edited by Alex Smart; 17th November 2021 at 00:13.

  2. #22
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Cornwall
    Posts
    3,757
    Thanks
    766
    Thanked 57 Times in 53 Posts

    Default Re: Unaccounted Airmen - Unknown Aircraft, Incorrect Serials, Unidentified Types

    For CHIDGEY and MONTGOMERY we have B-24 USAAF, 42-51661, 451st Bomber Group, MACR 15574.

    For HARRIS, 28/11/44 we have B-24J-120-CO, 42-109985.

    For HERBERT, 9/10/44 we have B-24 44-40398, 380thBomb Group, 531st Bomb Sqn, MACR 11647.
    Last edited by Alex Smart; 19th November 2021 at 16:21.

  3. #23
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Cornwall
    Posts
    3,757
    Thanks
    766
    Thanked 57 Times in 53 Posts

    Default Re: Unaccounted Airmen - Unknown Aircraft, Incorrect Serials, Unidentified Types

    In regard to the loss of Cadet COLLING, Paul Cecil John on the 21/10/1941 in the USA.
    Datasheet shows the a/c to be a BT-13A.
    However a photo of the wreckage along with the local newspaper report dated 22nd shows the tail unit which to me does not look to me to be that of a BT-13A.
    So maybe another training type that were being used at Falcon Field, Mesa, Arizona ?
    See Findagrave -

    https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/...l_john-colling

    Note the newspapers report about the earlier death of Cadet Alexander Thomas BROOKS. CWGC has this Airman's death as the 20th, but seems that it was earlier ?

    Alex
    Last edited by Alex Smart; 19th November 2021 at 22:45.

  4. #24
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Cornwall
    Posts
    3,757
    Thanks
    766
    Thanked 57 Times in 53 Posts

    Default Re: Unaccounted Airmen - Unknown Aircraft, Incorrect Serials, Unidentified Types

    In regard to - Lt. Alexander de JONG, 206533V - SAAF - 17 Sqn
    And
    WO1, Thomas SMALLWOOD, 329105V - SAAF - 17 Sqn
    These two airmen were crew of Ventura FP635, "Y" of 17 Sqn that was brought down by flak while attacking U-Boat U-453.
    Two other crewmembers were also killed. They were -
    PINES and JOSEPHSON .
    Last edited by Alex Smart; 20th November 2021 at 19:28.

  5. #25
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Cornwall
    Posts
    3,757
    Thanks
    766
    Thanked 57 Times in 53 Posts

    Default Re: Unaccounted Airmen - Unknown Aircraft, Incorrect Serials, Unidentified Types

    Well Jagen,
    Looks like your list has now all been answered, so exercise completed ?

  6. #26
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Posts
    7,285
    Thanks
    2
    Thanked 212 Times in 196 Posts

    Default Re: Unaccounted Airmen - Unknown Aircraft, Incorrect Serials, Unidentified Types

    Quote Originally Posted by Alex Smart View Post
    In regard to - Lt. Alexander de JONG, 206533V - SAAF - 17 Sqn
    And
    WO1, Thomas SMALLWOOD, 329105V - SAAF - 17 Sqn
    These two airmen were crew of Ventura FP543 of 17 Sqn that was brought down by flak while attacking U-Boat U-453.
    Two other crewmembers were also killed. They were -
    PINES and JOSEPHSON .
    Alex,

    Re: Ventura GR.V FP543. I suggest you peruse the following documents:

    https://recordsearch.naa.gov.au/Sear...aspx?B=3501664

    Col.
    Last edited by COL BRUGGY; 20th November 2021 at 09:48.

  7. The Following User Says Thank You to COL BRUGGY For This Useful Post:

    Alex Smart (20th November 2021)

  8. #27
    Join Date
    Nov 2020
    Location
    Lincoln, England
    Posts
    470
    Thanks
    10
    Thanked 163 Times in 149 Posts

    Default Re: Unaccounted Airmen - Unknown Aircraft, Incorrect Serials, Unidentified Types

    Yes indeed, this still seems to be an outstanding issue.
    The same serial is being quoted for two losses (459 Sqn RAAF on 3Feb44 and 17 Sqn SAAF on 4Feb44).
    It has been discussed before, see: http://www.rafcommands.com/archive/10723.php

  9. The Following User Says Thank You to Andy Marden For This Useful Post:

    Alex Smart (20th November 2021)

  10. #28
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Posts
    7,285
    Thanks
    2
    Thanked 212 Times in 196 Posts

    Default Re: Unaccounted Airmen - Unknown Aircraft, Incorrect Serials, Unidentified Types

    Hello,

    the 17 Sqn SAAF Ventura, lost on 4 February, 1944, was possibly FP635/"Y".

    See: 17 Sqn SAAF ORB - https://discovery.nationalarchives.g...ils/r/C2502875 - p.78 of 272 (see also pp.45 & 94 of 272).

    Col.
    Last edited by COL BRUGGY; 20th November 2021 at 12:15.

  11. The Following User Says Thank You to COL BRUGGY For This Useful Post:

    Alex Smart (20th November 2021)

  12. #29
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Cornwall
    Posts
    3,757
    Thanks
    766
    Thanked 57 Times in 53 Posts

    Default Re: Unaccounted Airmen - Unknown Aircraft, Incorrect Serials, Unidentified Types

    Hello Col and Andy,
    Yes you are correct. I just found references to the a/c serials and letter in the ORB.
    Indeed a/c "Y" was FP635.

    Have edited my first post.
    Alex

  13. #30
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    near Grimsby, Lincs.., UK
    Posts
    155
    Thanks
    7
    Thanked 6 Times in 6 Posts

    Default Re: Unaccounted Airmen - Unknown Aircraft, Incorrect Serials, Unidentified Types

    Quote Originally Posted by Alex Smart View Post
    In regard to the loss of Cadet COLLING, Paul Cecil John on the 21/10/1941 in the USA.
    Datasheet shows the a/c to be a BT-13A.
    However a photo of the wreckage along with the local newspaper report dated 22nd shows the tail unit which to me does not look to me to be that of a BT-13A.
    So maybe another training type that were being used at Falcon Field, Mesa, Arizona ?
    See Findagrave -

    https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/...l_john-colling

    Note the newspapers report about the earlier death of Cadet Alexander Thomas BROOKS. CWGC has this Airman's death as the 20th, but seems that it was earlier ?

    Alex
    Alex,
    The British Flying Training Schools were all equipped with primary, basic and advanced trainer types (PT, BT and single-engined AT). No.4 B.F.T.S. used PT-17 and PT-17A, BT-13A (up to November 1942), AT-6A, together with a small number of AT-6C and AT-6Ds.

    As regard LAC Collings accident on October 21, 1941, the very brief details on Form 1180 report the aircraft involved as "BT-13A 117". #117 is likely to be the aircraft's School Identity No, rather than a partial serial no. The PT were assigned lower numbers than this and AT were mostly numbered above 200. Unfortunately the daily reports in the ORB of No.4 B.F.T.S. only begin in January 1943 and so provide no help here. As is the usual case with BFTS accidents there appears to be no surviving USAAF Form 14 accident report for this loss. I have searched many of the BT-13A and AT-6A AAF individual aircraft record cards and so far have not found LAC Collings name, or noted a matching crash date. I have not seen the photograph you refer to. "The RAF in Arizona Falcon Field" by Jim Dawson is useful resource and includes some local newspaper reports but not, unfortunately, a photo of LAC Collings aircraft. Dawson also records the accident as involving a BT-13 and that LAC Collings was a member of Course No 2.

    LAC Brooks was a student of Course No.1, who died on 20 October 1941 as a result of injuries received in a night flying accident a few nights earlier. According to the Form 1180 his accident occurred shortly before midnight on October 16, 1941 and involved "AT 6A #198". The AAF IARC shows an accident to AT-6A, 41-693 on 17 October 1941 flown by LAC Alexander T. Brooks - "overshot field, airplane and engine complete wreck". I have no doubt this is the same accident.
    Tony Broadhurst

  14. The Following User Says Thank You to Freshman For This Useful Post:

    Alex Smart (21st November 2021)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •