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Thread: Friendly fire incident USAF and Lancaster DV171 2/1/1944 Help needed.

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    Default Friendly fire incident USAF and Lancaster DV171 2/1/1944 Help needed.

    I working on a hunch that there may have been a friendly fire incident between a USAF aircraft and Lancaster DV171 on 2/1/1944 where the M/U Sgt A A Fletcher was potentially wounded.

    They were on a sortie to Berlin, but were recalled by 'W/T' to Exeter.

    Does anyone know how to ferret out this sort of information?

    Thanks...
    626 Sqd Pilot F/S Stewart Jacques 1432964 PoW 2133 Shotup DV171 Crash Landed JB595 15/1/44 RIP 1993. Crew: Nav Sgt G C Farran 1512473 injured Branuschweig returned S.S.Gripsolm; F/E Sgt Alfred Arthur Phillips 1583796 RIP Berlin; B/A F/S J G Morton 1335893 PoW 1619 RIP 1997; WOp Sgt Frank Seddon 1536326 PoW 1469; M/U Sgt John Edward Holford 3050007 PoW 1465 RIP 26/3/2013; R/G Sgt Daniel Conolly O'Donnell 1061941 injured Branuschweig returned Letitia; M/U to 3/1/1943 Sgt A A Fletcher 1573497

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    Default Re: Friendly fire incident USAF and Lancaster DV171 2/1/1944 Help needed.

    Your first source should be the ORB for the unit for the Lancaster. To what squadron was this Lancaster attached?

    Jim

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    Default Re: Friendly fire incident USAF and Lancaster DV171 2/1/1944 Help needed.

    Hello,

    That would be presuming a USAAF aircraft was flying between midnight and 0600 (you don't say what time or where this may have occurred)

    As you've probably read, there are several stories of captured Fortresses slipping into the stream, wreaking havoc and departing.

    Re: Fletcher. There was an Alexander Archibald Fletcher with the service number of 1573497, which is mighty close to your Sgt A A Fletcher 1573487. Document AIR78/56/1-1, pg 46/124

    I'd be curious as to what his family would know about this incident.

    Regards,

    Dave

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    Default Re: Friendly fire incident USAF and Lancaster DV171 2/1/1944 Help needed.

    Quote Originally Posted by JDCAVE View Post
    Your first source should be the ORB for the unit for the Lancaster. To what squadron was this Lancaster attached?

    Jim
    626 Jim.
    I have the orb, but....
    626 Sqd Pilot F/S Stewart Jacques 1432964 PoW 2133 Shotup DV171 Crash Landed JB595 15/1/44 RIP 1993. Crew: Nav Sgt G C Farran 1512473 injured Branuschweig returned S.S.Gripsolm; F/E Sgt Alfred Arthur Phillips 1583796 RIP Berlin; B/A F/S J G Morton 1335893 PoW 1619 RIP 1997; WOp Sgt Frank Seddon 1536326 PoW 1469; M/U Sgt John Edward Holford 3050007 PoW 1465 RIP 26/3/2013; R/G Sgt Daniel Conolly O'Donnell 1061941 injured Branuschweig returned Letitia; M/U to 3/1/1943 Sgt A A Fletcher 1573497

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    Default Re: Friendly fire incident USAF and Lancaster DV171 2/1/1944 Help needed.

    Quote Originally Posted by alieneyes View Post
    Hello,

    That would be presuming a USAAF aircraft was flying between midnight and 0600 (you don't say what time or where this may have occurred)

    As you've probably read, there are several stories of captured Fortresses slipping into the stream, wreaking havoc and departing.

    Re: Fletcher. There was an Alexander Archibald Fletcher with the service number of 1573497, which is mighty close to your Sgt A A Fletcher 1573487. Document AIR78/56/1-1, pg 46/124

    I'd be curious as to what his family would know about this incident.

    Regards,

    Dave
    Dave,
    yes that is him, a mistake in my sig...

    I have not managed to find his family, yet. I know he survived, well at least until 14th Jan 1944, but he did not fly with that crew again.

    Up time from 626 Wickenby 23.49 down Exeter 3.01 target was Berlin, bombs jettisoned 00.55 @ 5332/0142.

    Andrew
    Last edited by Beagletorque; 20th January 2022 at 22:04.
    626 Sqd Pilot F/S Stewart Jacques 1432964 PoW 2133 Shotup DV171 Crash Landed JB595 15/1/44 RIP 1993. Crew: Nav Sgt G C Farran 1512473 injured Branuschweig returned S.S.Gripsolm; F/E Sgt Alfred Arthur Phillips 1583796 RIP Berlin; B/A F/S J G Morton 1335893 PoW 1619 RIP 1997; WOp Sgt Frank Seddon 1536326 PoW 1469; M/U Sgt John Edward Holford 3050007 PoW 1465 RIP 26/3/2013; R/G Sgt Daniel Conolly O'Donnell 1061941 injured Branuschweig returned Letitia; M/U to 3/1/1943 Sgt A A Fletcher 1573497

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    Default Re: Friendly fire incident USAF and Lancaster DV171 2/1/1944 Help needed.

    Hi Dave, long time no contact! Hope you’re well.

    Has that story about ‘fake’ B-17 infiltrators ever been shown to be true? I thought I recalled hearing that it was never proven? Presumably the suggestion was that it would’ve been KG200 doing it.

    I have one of 214 Sqn’s crews (RCM Fortress) believing they were once fired on by a USAAF P-61 Black Widow.

    All the best

    Ian
    Last edited by ianh; 21st January 2022 at 08:14.

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    Default Re: Friendly fire incident USAF and Lancaster DV171 2/1/1944 Help needed.

    Quote Originally Posted by ianh View Post
    Hi Dave, long time no contact! Hope you’re well.

    Has that story about ‘fake’ B-17 infiltrators ever been shown to be true? I thought I recalled hearing that it was never proven? Presumably the suggestion was that it would’ve been KG200 doing it.

    I have one of 214 Sqn’s crews (RCM Fortress) believing they were once fired on by a USAAF P-61 Black Widow.

    All the best

    Ian
    https://www.warhistoryonline.com/mil...ld-war-ii.html
    626 Sqd Pilot F/S Stewart Jacques 1432964 PoW 2133 Shotup DV171 Crash Landed JB595 15/1/44 RIP 1993. Crew: Nav Sgt G C Farran 1512473 injured Branuschweig returned S.S.Gripsolm; F/E Sgt Alfred Arthur Phillips 1583796 RIP Berlin; B/A F/S J G Morton 1335893 PoW 1619 RIP 1997; WOp Sgt Frank Seddon 1536326 PoW 1469; M/U Sgt John Edward Holford 3050007 PoW 1465 RIP 26/3/2013; R/G Sgt Daniel Conolly O'Donnell 1061941 injured Branuschweig returned Letitia; M/U to 3/1/1943 Sgt A A Fletcher 1573497

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    Default Re: Friendly fire incident USAF and Lancaster DV171 2/1/1944 Help needed.

    There was a recorded incident 15 December 1944 concerning KB.762 "J"-Jigg and crew, captained by S/L Black of 419 Squadron. The following from the 419 "Moose" Squadron history:

    “…Flak over the target area was intense enough to hit at least three of 419's sixteen Lancs, but the greatest ‘success’ against the Moosemen was not scored by German flak. It was, according to the crew, of "J’-Jig” chalked up by anonymous gunners of a Flying Fortress. Shortly after leaving the target area, skipper S/L C. M. Black sighted the Fortress on the port bow and slightly above. No immediate action was taken. The Fortress turned slowly to starboard, and, when it came into position dead ahead, Black pulled the Lanc's nose up slightly (probably to avoid the Fort's slipstream). At precisely that moment the Fortress opened fire on the Lancaster from its starboard waist gun and tail position, corkscrewing to starboard after a short burst. Black climbed steeply to port and the Fortress was last seen breaking away under the starboard wing. During the brief scuffle strikes were scored on the Lancaster 's nose, wounding the bomb-aimer, FS B. L. McKinnon, in the right foot. "Jig" was also hit by flak over an unlikely area between the towns of Hochspeyer and Elmstein, several miles west of the target. Skipper S/L Black sat down at Woodbridge and McKinnon was promptly admitted to the Ipswich and East Suffolk Hospital, where he was placed and held on the "seriously wounded" list for six days...”

    S/L "Blackie" Black went on to command 426 Squadron Jan 1945 to end of the war. I could find the combat report of this if you are interested.

    Edit: Combat report sent. Also excerpt from Bashow, "No Prouder Place".

    Jim
    Last edited by JDCAVE; 21st January 2022 at 17:34.

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    Default Re: Friendly fire incident USAF and Lancaster DV171 2/1/1944 Help needed.

    Interesting link, Beagletorque, although that doesn’t suggest KG200 used captured a/c to infiltrate bomber streams - where they’d stand a chance of being shot down by their own nightfighters.

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    Default Re: Friendly fire incident USAF and Lancaster DV171 2/1/1944 Help needed.

    Also interesting post there Jim, albeit off-topic for the original post here. Since two of my research projects have been 214 Sqn and A/c ‘arrivals’ at Woodbridge, I’ll have to compare all the different documents and see how they tie-up!

    EDIT:
    Checked both Sqn's ORB's and both crews' combat reports, plus the Woodbridge ORB and, yes, these do seem to tie-in very closely. Seems pretty sure that S/L Black's 419 Sqn Lancaster KB762, VR-J was fired upon and hit by F/O Rix's gunners in 214 Sqn Fortress HB801, BU-U at 18.40/18.45 hrs on 15/12/1944, approx 20 miles SW of Ludwigshafen.
    Last edited by ianh; 22nd January 2022 at 09:55.

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