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Thread: Harvard N7086 28.9.39 Lossiemouth (collision Oxford II N4786) Pilot

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    Default Harvard N7086 28.9.39 Lossiemouth (collision Oxford II N4786) Pilot

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    Does anyone know the Pilot of Harvard N7086 that collided with Oxford N4786 on 28.9.39 at Lossiemouth

    The crew of the Oxford died and are

    Plt Off Joseph Baxter Ellis (22) killed #42597
    Plt Off David Hill (20) killed #39633

    Thinking of getting this closed file opened - and would like to get full details for FoI - Thanks Paul

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    Default Re: Harvard N7086 28.9.39 Lossiemouth (collision Oxford II N4786) Pilot

    Hello Paul,
    Answer is in Henk's List s of "N" serial numbers.
    15 FTS.
    P/O(P)[Provisional or Pilot ?] -John R. ROGERS - 42531 - RAF - UK6857.

    Forum's database has Him as Oxford N4758 14 FTS crewman along with Carter.

    AB's Harvard File has N7086 as 15 SFTS 9/39.
    Hit Oxford N4786 on take off from Lossiemouth, 28.9.39.

    Henk has Hill and Ellis as crew of Oxford N4786 - 15 FTS.

    Henk's List has this for Carter -
    Sgt(P). John L. Carter - 565872 - RAF - UK2863
    14 FTS - Oxford II - N4758 - 28/9/39.

    So Oxford N4758 was a separate accident ?

    Alex
    Last edited by Alex Smart; 26th April 2022 at 13:25.

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    Default Re: Harvard N7086 28.9.39 Lossiemouth (collision Oxford II N4786) Pilot

    Alex, et al,
    (p) in this case (for Commissionings, Promotions, etc) usually means "Probation".
    HTH
    Peter Davies
    Meteorology is a science; good meteorology is an art!
    We might not know - but we might know who does!

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    Default Re: Harvard N7086 28.9.39 Lossiemouth (collision Oxford II N4786) Pilot

    Alex

    I think this is muddled up John R. ROGERS was on Oxford N4786 lost same day in separate accident - i am looking for Harvard pilot

    Airspeed Oxford Mk.II N4758, 14 FTS, RAF Kinloss: Written off (damaged beyond repair) 28/9/39 when crashed at Lethen Bridge, South East of Nairn, Morayshire. Both crew were killed:


    Pilot Officer John Rupert Rogers (Service Number 42531 aged 23) killed
    Sgt John Lewis Carter (Service Number 565872, aged 24) killed

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    Default Re: Harvard N7086 28.9.39 Lossiemouth (collision Oxford II N4786) Pilot

    The Harvard Pilot is possibly P/O Claude Alexander HANSEN ( 40386)

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    Default Re: Harvard N7086 28.9.39 Lossiemouth (collision Oxford II N4786) Pilot

    Thanks Paul, not the first time that Henk had it wrong, but only very few.

    So,
    Carter and Rogers in Oxford N4758, 14 FTS.
    Ellis and Hill in N4786 - 15 FTS.
    and
    Hanson in N7086 - 15 FTS.

    Alex

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    Default Re: Harvard N7086 28.9.39 Lossiemouth (collision Oxford II N4786) Pilot

    Quote Originally Posted by Alex Smart View Post
    Thanks Paul, not the first time that Henk had it wrong, but only very few.

    So,
    Carter and Rogers in Oxford N4758, 14 FTS.
    Ellis and Hill in N4786 - 15 FTS.
    and
    Hanson in N7086 - 15 FTS.

    Alex

    yes I believe so..... Need F1108 for N7086 to confrm

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    Default Re: Harvard N7086 28.9.39 Lossiemouth (collision Oxford II N4786) Pilot

    P/O Claude Alexander HANSEN confirmed as Pilot of Harvard N7086 - 15 FTS.

  9. The Following User Says Thank You to paulmcmillan For This Useful Post:

    Alex Smart (29th April 2022)

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    Default Re: Harvard N7086 28.9.39 Lossiemouth (collision Oxford II N4786) Pilot

    Paul,

    You are out of luck ! I have the F.1180 for Harvard N7086 on this date but it is the non-standard type with a large 'C' stamped on it. Just page 1 with the date, aircraft serial and type, unit and Group. Nothing else except 'Fatal' written on the top. These type of F.1180s are normally accompanied by a standard 2-page card with all the usual details, but unfortunately not in this case.

    I thought this accident might be in the AVIA 5/19 series of crash investigation reports, but it is not listed there either.

    Regards,

    Martin.

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    Default Re: Harvard N7086 28.9.39 Lossiemouth (collision Oxford II N4786) Pilot

    Martin,

    In addition to the individual card you found - the outline of 2 injuries, harvard serial and pilot name are listed on the 2 off full F1180 for Oxford N4786 - N4786 also has a type C card archived. The admin system was still in flux and had yet to deal with multiple reports hence 4 cards for two aircraft.
    Ross.
    Last edited by Ross_McNeill; 27th April 2022 at 13:19.
    The Intellectual Property contained in this message has been assigned specifically to this web site.
    Copyright Ross McNeill 2015 to 2022 - All rights reserved.

  13. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Ross_McNeill For This Useful Post:

    Alex Smart (29th April 2022),paulmcmillan (27th April 2022)

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